Observation1:
This what Samuel Groner also found with his resarch
That even using two polar caps back to back lowers distortion
and is better than tantalum capacitors. Samuel was discussion
lowering distortion and which capacitors to use. He observed
using Bi polar caps as better and stated that even using the
polar electrolytics was better and had lower distortion if nothing else.
Observation 2:
Discussing what C.Bateman (ibid.) discussed regarding DA.
In you cases Richard, Jan, others there are two sentences in one
paragraph and you are discussing the meaning of it. Please read
the following:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Article 2 (in its entirety) from United States Constitution. adopted 1791.
The debate in the latter case is around the comma between "State" and
"the", and what it means, and possibly the other comma's.
In both cases people want to know the author(')s(') intent.
Go Figure.
Interesting wanting to finish cleaning up my analyzer and take
some measurements...just to find out for myself.
SW --- May be not unlike high DA bipolar electro's cancel distortion....? I;ll recheck.
Who has the sim models that predict any non-linear distortion at all in any type cap? .... even if it is tiny amount of thd. ?
If the suspense doesnt kill me first, I'll check progress tomorrow.
-RNM
Who has the sim models that predict any non-linear distortion at all in any type cap? .... even if it is tiny amount of thd. ?
If the suspense doesnt kill me first, I'll check progress tomorrow.
-RNM
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Make a mostly-air dielectric or mostly-vacuum dielectric cap out of two long plates of thin metal supported at one end by a low-DA dielectric material. The plates will attract or repel, and deflect, and the capacitance will change, with an interplate voltage. Such a capacitor will produce distortion in a suitable circuit, none due to DA, all due to the variation of capacitance with voltage.
Yeah, I never bought the "more natural" argument. But if you're going to have distortion, it's good if you can keep it low order and monotonic, because of masking. Oh yeah, there's an electrolytic output coupling cap on this too.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
se
OK, but you can avoid such distortion, quite easily, without creating high order distortion. This "nice" distortion also creates intermodulations that do not sound nice at all, especially with more complex music program. Distortion is not a good thing, though I may agree that this one will probably be naturally masked by the speaker distortion.
No, he was careful to say that the series connection reduces the distortion even further.
This veers into the old debate about accurate reproduction versus some other sort of relationship with one's equipment.
Second harmonic energy generated because of a smooth nonlinearity entails also the generation of d.c., always only approached, as somewhere in the system there is some highpass filtering, even if it only the air pressure adjusting to the outside world. I think some hear this as a desirable artifact, but it is not more accurate.
I understand what you are saying but I do not understand what the fact that air is SE has to do with the DA and cap discussion?
Jan
No. I just said what that test showed. An echo wasnt part of those comparison capture tests.
-RNM
more good reading?
Signal distortion from high-K ceramic capacitors | EDN
-RNM
more good reading?
Signal distortion from high-K ceramic capacitors | EDN
But being so low order, the intermod is more benign as well, even without any potential masking from transducer distortion. And in my opinion, if it's not audible under real world conditions, it may as well be "distortionless" for all intents and purposes.
The circuit by the way is a headphone amplifier. On the front end is a 1:5 step up transformer, which provides all of the voltage gain. It drives a simple JFET/bipolar darlington emitter follower fed from an equally simple single bipolar constant current source. Power supply is single-ended as well and the follower's output is biased at 1/2 the supply voltage through a single polar electrolytic.
When the measurement was taken, I believe it was driving a 32 ohm headphone that was playing quite loudly while sitting on the bench.
se
If the simple difference frequency is in a region of high aural acuity, and arises from IM of two high frequencies, it may well be that the diff freq energy is quite audible. That's a contrived test I agree---but does point up the pitfalls. Putzeys is eloquent about this in his Linear Audio "The F Word" piece.
But under what conditions? Pure tones or actual music which is what I spend time listening to? Most of our hearing thresholds are established using simple tones. Whole different ballgame when it comes to music.
se
Yes, which is why I used the term "contrived". But I still think it is irresponsible to countenance IM distortion of low order as o.k.---particularly as it is so easy to eliminate it in most of the signal chain. As usual the loudspeaker and the headphones are the most difficult to manage.
I'm reminded of the early days of digital audio, when one of the major bullies in the game had panels of listeners auditioning various compression schemes. They got the results they wanted---no one could hear a difference. Then Bart Locanthi listened. He identified parts of the program material and instructed the folks to listen here, listen there. Then they could hear some substantial audible artifacts. But Big Bully said Well so what? It was only after you told them where to listen---and proceeded with their plans.
actually S/H is pretty much the basic building block of switched capacitor filters - which are common in delta-sigma V out audio DAC chips - even those being designed in recently, getting good reviews
the SW-C filter integrated caps use SiO2 dielectric, some flagship audio DAC with Sw_C output filters manage better than -110 dB THD+N
it is amusing to read Schiit Audio's Mike Moffet on S/H sounding like *** and knowing they sell audio DAC with AKM chips using integrated Sw-C filters
the SW-C filter integrated caps use SiO2 dielectric, some flagship audio DAC with Sw_C output filters manage better than -110 dB THD+N
it is amusing to read Schiit Audio's Mike Moffet on S/H sounding like *** and knowing they sell audio DAC with AKM chips using integrated Sw-C filters
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(to bcarso)
This is the result of the pure H2, "more rich sound" - no, thanks.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
LT spice cap models.
Fig. 7 in the paper - https://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/Supplier%20Content/CDE_338/PDF/CDE_ImprovedSpiceModels.pdf?redirected=1
Shows the pure element implementation for spice (electrolytic) .
Rubycon offers models for their solid polymer stock -
SPICE Model Download / Capacitor,Power Supply Units RUBYCON CORPORATION
One could collect a whole array of advanced macro's , as examples (and models)
are numerous.
http://www.apec-conf.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/is1.3.7.pdf
The manufacturers want to sell their wares !! So they have a vested
interest in giving a accurate model.
OS
Fig. 7 in the paper - https://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/Supplier%20Content/CDE_338/PDF/CDE_ImprovedSpiceModels.pdf?redirected=1
Shows the pure element implementation for spice (electrolytic) .
Rubycon offers models for their solid polymer stock -
SPICE Model Download / Capacitor,Power Supply Units RUBYCON CORPORATION
One could collect a whole array of advanced macro's , as examples (and models)
are numerous.
http://www.apec-conf.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/is1.3.7.pdf
The manufacturers want to sell their wares !! So they have a vested
interest in giving a accurate model.
OS
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