I wonder what they would have said if you asked them if they were correct for Gold too?
I could post a photo of my crossovers but I'm not sure how posting images works.
After they confirmed they are the correct crossovers from my speaker kit, they then asked why I thought they were wrong. I then sent them the freq response and explained my concerns regarding the 2.5khz crossover point.
I am still awaiting a reply from them. So this may not be the end of the story, but they certainly confirmed that the crossovers I have are the correct ones for the kit I have - i.e. the volt mid.
I am still awaiting a reply from them. So this may not be the end of the story, but they certainly confirmed that the crossovers I have are the correct ones for the kit I have - i.e. the volt mid.
That seems like a more normal reaction for a business dealing with a customer problem. I can just about believe they cocked up their network simulation and/or supplying components but not fixing it seemed very unlikely.
Excellent reply from WA
:
The Prestige crossover is designed to cross over at 380Hz and 3800Hz, whether we use the ATC midrange or the Volt.
The Volt's upper range is 4000 Hz, so we would not normally crossover as high a 4500 Hz as you suggest.
Obviously this is a design that we have supplied to many customers over the years and it's performance is always enthusiastically received. So I am very surprised to hear that you feel that there is a problem. However I am not ruling out that there may not have been an error made during assembly, so we would be very happy to check them out free of charge if you would like to send them to us.
I will take them up on that offer to try to get to the bottom of this so will keep you all informed (even if I decide to go fully active......)
I am still a little concerned that they are using one crossover designed for the ATC mid, with the Volt mid and that is the cause of the problems, but we will see.
:
The Prestige crossover is designed to cross over at 380Hz and 3800Hz, whether we use the ATC midrange or the Volt.
The Volt's upper range is 4000 Hz, so we would not normally crossover as high a 4500 Hz as you suggest.
Obviously this is a design that we have supplied to many customers over the years and it's performance is always enthusiastically received. So I am very surprised to hear that you feel that there is a problem. However I am not ruling out that there may not have been an error made during assembly, so we would be very happy to check them out free of charge if you would like to send them to us.
I will take them up on that offer to try to get to the bottom of this so will keep you all informed (even if I decide to go fully active......)
I am still a little concerned that they are using one crossover designed for the ATC mid, with the Volt mid and that is the cause of the problems, but we will see.
There is something wrong here for sure. WA's website gives the Volt VM752 frequency range as 500Hz to 4000Hz. Volt's own website gives the same figures. It seems a little strange to be crossing over at 380Hz when the driver isn't specified to work until 500Hz! That's a fair portion of a missing octave I believe.
I agree and was about to comment on this myself.
I will send them the crossovers to be looked at, but will likely push ahead with my active plans anyway as I can then experiment with crossover points and measurements until I find the best compromises.
As previously said I also suspect that the drivers will do better with 4th order electrical slopes anyway due to the Fs of the volt mid, and the break-up of the Volt woofer. But I will post measurements of all my experiments if people wish.
I would still suggest that anyone who owns a prestige measures their speakers to ensure similar problems have not occurred.
I will send them the crossovers to be looked at, but will likely push ahead with my active plans anyway as I can then experiment with crossover points and measurements until I find the best compromises.
As previously said I also suspect that the drivers will do better with 4th order electrical slopes anyway due to the Fs of the volt mid, and the break-up of the Volt woofer. But I will post measurements of all my experiments if people wish.
I would still suggest that anyone who owns a prestige measures their speakers to ensure similar problems have not occurred.
Couldn't agree more but in a busy life I had considered that spending £2k with a reputable speaker company would mean I would get a crossover that was fit and designed for purpose. But I will look and see if:
-my crossover is as it should be in terms of connections and component values
-whether that fits the bill in terms of crossover points
-my crossover is as it should be in terms of connections and component values
-whether that fits the bill in terms of crossover points
Maybe this is at least part of the reason that katieanddad thought the sound was so poor. This is a crucial section of the midrange of any speaker with the piano middle A at 440 Hz - right in the middle of the "hole" in the response! It could hardly have been worse from that point of view. I think we can discount Volt's figures from being in error, and that only seems to leave one possibility. Are you going to tell WA about all this before you let them investigate? I think I would keep quiet and get their official response in isolation from this thread.
"I am still a little concerned that they are using one crossover designed for the ATC mid, with the Volt mid and that is the cause of the problems, but we will see..."
It is clear that WA are using the same crossover for the Prestige Gold ( ATC 16ohm) and the Prestige Platinum (Volt 8 ohm) If you look at the values of the components for the ATC Prestige Gold crossover in my post N. 539 you will see that they are almost identical to those posted by Bushmeister for the Volt Prestige Platinum. But for an 8 ohm driver the capacitor should have been ( at least in theory) double and the inductor half the values for the same 380 Hz crossover point.
It seems very strange to me,too.
It is clear that WA are using the same crossover for the Prestige Gold ( ATC 16ohm) and the Prestige Platinum (Volt 8 ohm) If you look at the values of the components for the ATC Prestige Gold crossover in my post N. 539 you will see that they are almost identical to those posted by Bushmeister for the Volt Prestige Platinum. But for an 8 ohm driver the capacitor should have been ( at least in theory) double and the inductor half the values for the same 380 Hz crossover point.
It seems very strange to me,too.
Here is a photo of my Prestige crossover. Note the CD for scale!
Attachments
ATC mid
The WA Prestige crosses over at 500Hz for both the volt and atc mid.
The atc sounds better crossed over at 380-400Hz, however to do this you need to equalise the impedance resonance peak at 320Hz.
You can't do this with the volt as it is designed for 500Hz or higher with Fs around 400Hz. For the atc you also usually need to equalise a response peak at around 800 to 1000Hz- This will depend on baffle design.
I've used the ATC mid for many years and when implemented correctly is the best mid I've heard. (Not easy to implement a passive xover)
I've used the following bass drivers with the ATC:-
RV3143 (Good)
B250 (not so good)
B2500.1 (x1 and x2) (excellent)
Accuton S280-18-282N (x2) (excellent but stupid price)
You need a 3rd order low pass filter for the bass to give good phase alignment with the ATC. All drivers are usually connected in phase.
The WA Prestige crosses over at 500Hz for both the volt and atc mid.
The atc sounds better crossed over at 380-400Hz, however to do this you need to equalise the impedance resonance peak at 320Hz.
You can't do this with the volt as it is designed for 500Hz or higher with Fs around 400Hz. For the atc you also usually need to equalise a response peak at around 800 to 1000Hz- This will depend on baffle design.
I've used the ATC mid for many years and when implemented correctly is the best mid I've heard. (Not easy to implement a passive xover)
I've used the following bass drivers with the ATC:-
RV3143 (Good)
B250 (not so good)
B2500.1 (x1 and x2) (excellent)
Accuton S280-18-282N (x2) (excellent but stupid price)
You need a 3rd order low pass filter for the bass to give good phase alignment with the ATC. All drivers are usually connected in phase.
That looks like a sensible choice to me and lines up with Bushmeister's plot but it doesn't line up with the 380Hz that Wilmslow told Bushmeister which, as you say, looks unwise for the Volt. There is also a suggestion in Bushmeister's plot of the resonance of the midrange. I don't know the recent history at Wilmslow but someone earlier in the thread said the person that did the speaker design had left and perhaps there is only a more sales orientated person/people left. This is pure speculation on my part in trying to understand what might be going on in the thread.
ATC and 380Hz
The WA crossover is a very simple implementation that does not get the best out of the ATC mid. From the circuits and response plots posted it looks like 500Hz xover point. I bought one of the very first Prestige kits many years ago and this was definitely 500Hz. WA seem to have changed the xover design many times over the years. This is understandable as the atc is not easy to integrate with the bass driver. If you get is right though it does sound amazing.
A 500hz xover point makes the design easier as you can get away without equalising the 320Hz resonance peak. (For the 8ohm ATC use 2.5mH + 100uF + 8 ohms in series place across the driver.
The WA crossover is a very simple implementation that does not get the best out of the ATC mid. From the circuits and response plots posted it looks like 500Hz xover point. I bought one of the very first Prestige kits many years ago and this was definitely 500Hz. WA seem to have changed the xover design many times over the years. This is understandable as the atc is not easy to integrate with the bass driver. If you get is right though it does sound amazing.
A 500hz xover point makes the design easier as you can get away without equalising the 320Hz resonance peak. (For the 8ohm ATC use 2.5mH + 100uF + 8 ohms in series place across the driver.
The original designer was a Mr Williams Hart and I found this on his SPEAKER KITS website "I have been designing Loudspeakers for over 25 years now and many homes worldwide currently enjoy listening to some of my designs, the most famous of them is probably the original version of the 'Wilmslow Audio Prestige', which is up there competing with the best" He also says that he sold his half of Wilmslow Audio (some years ago I believe). It could be that he was the only one who really understood the designs.
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