At this point, I'm probably going to limit my choices to the AT33PTGII and the Benz MC Gold. Both of these cartridges are warmly reviewed, and both are currently available. The down side of the Benz is the aluminum cantilever, but it's also less expensive than the AT33, unless I compare it to the AT33 option w/elliptical stylus and aluminum cantilever. Next up is looking at the compliance of each cartridge to see how it lines up with the effective mass of my available tonearms.
Would disagree on worst. Own several different including a BENZ and LYRA KLEOS. For DIY projects I personally don't put those at risk. The Denon fits the bill.
However, I just looked at pricing and it isn't as much of a good deal as it was, so there are probably better ones out there.
Watching this thread with interest
The correct name for the AT cartridge mentioned by ahaja is the AT-OC9ML/II. It indeed looks interesting, and the price is certainly a steal, especially as you get both a fine line stylus and a boron cantilever for that money. Decisions, decisions...
I have a couple of SME 3009R arms, and a bronze bearing retrofit kit I plan to install on one of them. Would this arm be considered too low mass for your typical MC cartridge? I also plan to use a carbon fiber-loaded headshell, and I'll have to check the weight as compared to the original headshell to estimate its effect on the tonearm mass.
I have a couple of SME 3009R arms, and a bronze bearing retrofit kit I plan to install on one of them. Would this arm be considered too low mass for your typical MC cartridge? I also plan to use a carbon fiber-loaded headshell, and I'll have to check the weight as compared to the original headshell to estimate its effect on the tonearm mass.
A medium compliance LOMC should be pretty happy on a 3009R, I have a Series II which works fairly well even with fairly low compliance MCs. (I also have a Schick and diy'd clone 3012, and at one time owned 3 3009 Series II)
I take it the R has a plastic knife edge in which case the bronze knife edge should be an improvement, otherwise possibly not.
I take it the R has a plastic knife edge in which case the bronze knife edge should be an improvement, otherwise possibly not.
I wouldn't bother too much about the cantilever material; it's not the material that makes the sound, but the way effective tip mass, damping and magnetic construction is combined.
Aluminium also has special advantages, e.g. the diamond tip can be fixed without glue in contrast to boron or diamond cantilevers.
If you've got 3009R you don't have to look for more.
Stock internal wire 3009 - if you can just rewire tonearm and solder directly output rca (Neutrik Profi plugs) wire. Use the least joints on the way from cart to preamp as you can. It is one big improvement.
I use for internal wiring thin enamelled winding wires (8x 0.05mm + 4x 0.08mm).
Stock internal wire 3009 - if you can just rewire tonearm and solder directly output rca (Neutrik Profi plugs) wire. Use the least joints on the way from cart to preamp as you can. It is one big improvement.
I use for internal wiring thin enamelled winding wires (8x 0.05mm + 4x 0.08mm).
In my experience boron is superior to aluminium as a cantilever . It is not coincidence that the vast majority of manufactures swap aluminium for boron as you go up the model range.
Also I would not blow any dollars on benz gold . made it japan , not made by hand , big fat diamond on the end , it is a benz in name only .
If it were me , i would take a risk on a second hand MC or save up and buy benz micro ace s l .
$500 dollars is £300 quid , look on english ebay .
Also I would not blow any dollars on benz gold . made it japan , not made by hand , big fat diamond on the end , it is a benz in name only .
If it were me , i would take a risk on a second hand MC or save up and buy benz micro ace s l .
$500 dollars is £300 quid , look on english ebay .
My opinion is that at a budget of $500 ... an MM makes a better option. If you have $1,500 available - then perhaps a good MC becomes feasible.
Andy
I have both the 103R, and the AT33PTGII. The AT wins hands down for tracking, resolution, and neutrality. Its output 0.25mV at 5cm/sec and 200 Ohm load. I measured that. While the Denon is stronger than that on same load. Can't remember how much stronger but easily audibly stronger. 2-3dB maybe.
A few months age we made a comparison:
- Ortofon 2MBlack/SME3009 (6.5g)
- Denon DL103R/AT ATP12T
The same preamplifier, both carts properly loaded, aligned volume levels.
Result: about 30 seconds took us to know the winner >> DL103R. In every aspect in sound.
I don't understand spending much more than 300$ for MM cart ... ;-)
- Ortofon 2MBlack/SME3009 (6.5g)
- Denon DL103R/AT ATP12T
The same preamplifier, both carts properly loaded, aligned volume levels.
Result: about 30 seconds took us to know the winner >> DL103R. In every aspect in sound.
I don't understand spending much more than 300$ for MM cart ... ;-)
MM gives fuller sound easier with medium to low price phono stages its maybe a reason. To handle an LMC properly it either takes experienced DIY in low noise design & build or $$$ for off the self phonos and SUTs.
MM cartridges are inferior compared to MC..
It is clear to anyone who has a basic knowledge of electronics..
It is also clear that one phono preamp can not work equally good with MM and MC phono cartridges..
MM/MC solutions are always full of unacceptable compromises, usually degrade MC level... that is why sometimes MM cartridges sound better..
When you make a serious test, with properly designed amplifications and not some toy with MM/MC switch, any MC cartridge sounds better than the most expensive MM..
It is clear to anyone who has a basic knowledge of electronics..
It is also clear that one phono preamp can not work equally good with MM and MC phono cartridges..
MM/MC solutions are always full of unacceptable compromises, usually degrade MC level... that is why sometimes MM cartridges sound better..
When you make a serious test, with properly designed amplifications and not some toy with MM/MC switch, any MC cartridge sounds better than the most expensive MM..
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I've had the AT-OC9ML/II, or actually I still have it, but it's needle is now way past it's best before date. It's a nice cart, not the last word in resolution, and has a slightly cold overall balance, but nevertheless a nice cart for the price. Build quality is excellent.
I also had a Benz Micro ACE L for a while, but I never quite made friends with it. It's a very resolving cart, but it can't do rock. Too polite for my tastes. I replaced it with an Ortofon Kontrapunkt A.
The Denon DL-103 is also a nice cart, but doesn't like all tonearms. It works wonders in my Michell Gyro SE/Tecnoarm -combo, but when I first moved it onto the stock tonearm of my Technics SL-1200mkII it sounded like someone had neutered it. No dynamics whatsoever. I was a bit baffled since the two arms have practically the same mass, but still I only managed to make the marriage work by putting extra weight on both the counterweight and the headshell.
The Denon - when married to the appropriate gear - is a surprisingly resolving cart despite it's simple stylus shape. I think everyone should try this. Not the best cart out there, but there's a reason it's survived on the market since 1962.
But what I'd really recommend if the budget is limited to 500$ is the new Ortofon Quintet Blue. A wonderful little bugger, though looking like the dog's dinner. This is probably the most coherent sounding cart I've experienced under a grand. I reviewed this for a local publication, and was actually left missing it after the review period, despite having a more expensive Kontrapunkt at my disposal. It's a balanced, effortlessly dynamic cartridge.
At the price range of 500$ I wouldn't set my mind too much on exotic materials and line contact styli. They might come with too much compromise elsewhere.
I also had a Benz Micro ACE L for a while, but I never quite made friends with it. It's a very resolving cart, but it can't do rock. Too polite for my tastes. I replaced it with an Ortofon Kontrapunkt A.
The Denon DL-103 is also a nice cart, but doesn't like all tonearms. It works wonders in my Michell Gyro SE/Tecnoarm -combo, but when I first moved it onto the stock tonearm of my Technics SL-1200mkII it sounded like someone had neutered it. No dynamics whatsoever. I was a bit baffled since the two arms have practically the same mass, but still I only managed to make the marriage work by putting extra weight on both the counterweight and the headshell.
The Denon - when married to the appropriate gear - is a surprisingly resolving cart despite it's simple stylus shape. I think everyone should try this. Not the best cart out there, but there's a reason it's survived on the market since 1962.
But what I'd really recommend if the budget is limited to 500$ is the new Ortofon Quintet Blue. A wonderful little bugger, though looking like the dog's dinner. This is probably the most coherent sounding cart I've experienced under a grand. I reviewed this for a local publication, and was actually left missing it after the review period, despite having a more expensive Kontrapunkt at my disposal. It's a balanced, effortlessly dynamic cartridge.
At the price range of 500$ I wouldn't set my mind too much on exotic materials and line contact styli. They might come with too much compromise elsewhere.
A long time ago, a British journalist reviewed PT turntable with SME V tonearm and Shure Ultra 500 MM cartridge which he got from manufacturer together with LP and master tape of which record was cut.
He compared sound of gramophone combination to master tape and found it very, very close.
Then he replaced Ultra 500 with Koetsu Black MC cartridge.Suddenly, sound lost master tape like clarity and bass tightness. Manufacturers comment was that they hated inaccurate MC cartridges.
We often forget that every source component have a firm reference-master tape or digital medium used in discs manufacturing. The closer the better.
I am using at the moment Benz Micro Gold MC, with my Borbely designed high end DIY phono stage which is really noise and hum free. It is a first rate MC cartridge with good stereo and low surface noise. At the same time I sometimes use Shure VST-V MM which have a slightly better, firmer bass and more natural dynamics. I would say that Benz has more attractive sound than Shure but perhaps less neutral to imagined master tape. Perhaps we all love pleasant MC coloration, similar to valve eq. fanatics.
All in all , analogue components are shamelessly expensive taking in account technology and material used in manufacturing. For the price of entry level Benz Gold, you may buy two decent laser printers.
He compared sound of gramophone combination to master tape and found it very, very close.
Then he replaced Ultra 500 with Koetsu Black MC cartridge.Suddenly, sound lost master tape like clarity and bass tightness. Manufacturers comment was that they hated inaccurate MC cartridges.
We often forget that every source component have a firm reference-master tape or digital medium used in discs manufacturing. The closer the better.
I am using at the moment Benz Micro Gold MC, with my Borbely designed high end DIY phono stage which is really noise and hum free. It is a first rate MC cartridge with good stereo and low surface noise. At the same time I sometimes use Shure VST-V MM which have a slightly better, firmer bass and more natural dynamics. I would say that Benz has more attractive sound than Shure but perhaps less neutral to imagined master tape. Perhaps we all love pleasant MC coloration, similar to valve eq. fanatics.
All in all , analogue components are shamelessly expensive taking in account technology and material used in manufacturing. For the price of entry level Benz Gold, you may buy two decent laser printers.
I do not believe them any word that write..
These masters also need to be somehow reproduced..
How do you know? Have you ever conducted the same experiment?
Tape playback machines at disc cutting studio and at home should be of the same professional level.
If we get identical or very similar sound reproduction with our analogue system then we have near perfect turntable, tonearm , cartridge and phono stage and perfectly cut record. End of the story.
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