aaaaah, the keywords arrive...
Can you please explain what is meant by "veil of mediocrity"?
What exactly is the "subjective life" of the quality? And while we are at it, what quality?
What form of distortion is subtle enough that you (not necessarily we) can hear its effects, but cannot be measured? All the "reports" of such distortion I've read actually claim no measurement is necessary or, at the very least, fail to provide measurements.
So, what measurements have you attempted, with what equipment, using what protocols, and what suggestions do you have for why you were unsuccessful in finding any measurable distortion that matched the impact you hear?
Can you please explain what is meant by "veil of mediocrity"?
What exactly is the "subjective life" of the quality? And while we are at it, what quality?
What form of distortion is subtle enough that you (not necessarily we) can hear its effects, but cannot be measured? All the "reports" of such distortion I've read actually claim no measurement is necessary or, at the very least, fail to provide measurements.
So, what measurements have you attempted, with what equipment, using what protocols, and what suggestions do you have for why you were unsuccessful in finding any measurable distortion that matched the impact you hear?
Partly poetic, but I've mentioned what I'm referring to many times - that the low level detail in the recording is not clear. If you listen to live sounds, of many things - musical instruments is just one example of such, trademen using various tools is another - there is great dynamic range in the sound: in a split second, it will go from an intense sharpness so a soft whisper, or muttering, and back again to a crescendo, and the ears can pick it up, decode what's going on without effort, without discomfort. And this is what normal audio can't get right - if the volume is up high, so that the soft bits come through correctly, then the high volume sections are screechy, unpleasant, overloaded - most of all, they are unrealistic; and if you then turn the volume down to a "nice" level then that's how the music comes across - "nice", like one's maiden aunt wouldn't object to.
The distortion can be measured, but the few efforts and bits of thinking towards that go nowhere - it's assessing how the distortion levels vary, in subtle ways, under dynamic conditions. And almost everyone can identify the distortion - every time you hear music coming from somewhere, without sighting the source, and you instantly know it's a recording and not something live making the sound then you've, perhaps unconsciously, recognised the distortion artifacts.
Down the track it would satisfying to nail a precise procedure, to be able to clearly identify the distortion characteristics, with numerical data, in every variation. However, at the moment I'm more interested making a system "bulletproof" in terms of behaving correctly, everytime; that's enough work in itself, and meanwhile my ears serve sufficiently well to assess progress made.
The distortion can be measured, but the few efforts and bits of thinking towards that go nowhere - it's assessing how the distortion levels vary, in subtle ways, under dynamic conditions. And almost everyone can identify the distortion - every time you hear music coming from somewhere, without sighting the source, and you instantly know it's a recording and not something live making the sound then you've, perhaps unconsciously, recognised the distortion artifacts.
Down the track it would satisfying to nail a precise procedure, to be able to clearly identify the distortion characteristics, with numerical data, in every variation. However, at the moment I'm more interested making a system "bulletproof" in terms of behaving correctly, everytime; that's enough work in itself, and meanwhile my ears serve sufficiently well to assess progress made.
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That makes sense, when you think about it. The owner of that car needed such an expensive system to drown out the noise of the engine fan blades hitting the underside of the hood.
Fluid dynamics = unobtainium?
I spent years trying to get this with medium efficiency speakers and 250 watt amps.
I've heard some big amps with Wilson near top offerings, ditto for JM Lab, Dynaudio Evidence, and the big Sonus Faber and B & W 801's.
None of them can produce the fast attack of a well struck snare drum anywhere near live volume .
I'll keep trying though, as long as people are happy to buy my failures. At some point I want a big chunk of living room back that the horns are up .
I think the speakers reproduce their input, and compress it. I keep going back to high efficiency horns, and small amps, even though they're obviously more coloured than the speakers I make to sell. They get something right which makes it easy to listen to through their coloured lenses.I believe it's dynamic range.
I spent years trying to get this with medium efficiency speakers and 250 watt amps.
I've heard some big amps with Wilson near top offerings, ditto for JM Lab, Dynaudio Evidence, and the big Sonus Faber and B & W 801's.
None of them can produce the fast attack of a well struck snare drum anywhere near live volume .
I'll keep trying though, as long as people are happy to buy my failures. At some point I want a big chunk of living room back that the horns are up .
Not right. It's the amplifier that compresses, not the speakers. High efficiency horns and small, and big, amps is one way of getting there; but normal speakers and correctly working electronics will also do it. I can say this confidence because I've gone the latter route over and over again, never using speakers over about 90dB sensitivity.
And, yes, the something right is dynamic range; and yes, the "fast attack of a well struck snare drum anywhere near live volume" is a pretty good indicator - what I've got now won't do that, the recent systems would run into clipping constraints, but the size of the voltage rails is the only problem - a bit more headroom would get me there.
The recently heard Bryston monoblocks did full volume, fast attack snare drums, effortlessly, into normal sensitivity speakers - you only need one example to disprove a myth ...
And, yes, the something right is dynamic range; and yes, the "fast attack of a well struck snare drum anywhere near live volume" is a pretty good indicator - what I've got now won't do that, the recent systems would run into clipping constraints, but the size of the voltage rails is the only problem - a bit more headroom would get me there.
The recently heard Bryston monoblocks did full volume, fast attack snare drums, effortlessly, into normal sensitivity speakers - you only need one example to disprove a myth ...
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"Fast Attack" is the same total BS as "fast base" in a sub. Frequency and power my friends. As FAS42 says, you have to have the amplifier that can produce the power across the frequencies.
Yes, look at a transistor curve. It is called a curve for a reason. Linear amplifiers compress before we do clever things like negative feedback. A well designed amp with sufficient current does not compress. It may run out surge current from the power supply, lowering the rails, clipping and all kinds of bad things, but not simple compression.
Speakers have their own ton of issues. They DO compress at the extreme, as the mechanical suspension is not very linear. If it is giving you trouble, what it means is your speaker system is not designed for the output levels you are trying to reach. With anything larger than a mini-desktop speaker, that would imply you have been listening to too much too loud for too long and really should get your hearing tested, as I suspect you are half deaf. A well struck snare inside a living room is a dangerous SPL.
Yes, look at a transistor curve. It is called a curve for a reason. Linear amplifiers compress before we do clever things like negative feedback. A well designed amp with sufficient current does not compress. It may run out surge current from the power supply, lowering the rails, clipping and all kinds of bad things, but not simple compression.
Speakers have their own ton of issues. They DO compress at the extreme, as the mechanical suspension is not very linear. If it is giving you trouble, what it means is your speaker system is not designed for the output levels you are trying to reach. With anything larger than a mini-desktop speaker, that would imply you have been listening to too much too loud for too long and really should get your hearing tested, as I suspect you are half deaf. A well struck snare inside a living room is a dangerous SPL.
Who's modding now?
Thanks for your concern.my hearing is tested every year and is pretty good.
And I disagree with your posit that speakers only compress at volume extremes.
Amp slew rates are rarely published anymore. Does this mean it doesn't matter?
Even a casual comparison like those published by UHF Magazine of waveform and square wave signal input and speaker output reveals only a passing resemblance to the original signal. Step responses are usually poor .Speakers distort the most of any part in the signal chain.
And no, I don't believe anything with mass accelerates and decelerates perfectly.
I still believe there's some masking of low level signals in the presence of higher level signals. Listeners are expecting typically 3 to 6 raw drivers to form a cohesive sound wave which will, in an extreme case, reproduce the massed sound of an orchestra.
That's not even accounting for attempting to reproduce the sound of an event recorded in a given venue, yet played back in everybody's different living room.
If one completely geeks out over accuracy in playback, a person would need their recordings mastered to be played back in a standardized room, with standardized room treatments. And listen in a standard place in that room.
Obviously won't happen.
But I did have some Who Lps way back which printed suggested speakers and crossover points to set them at.Kudos to Pete for trying, but teenagers just wanted to play the record, not incur a parents wrath by modding the speakers.
Pun intended.
Thanks for your concern.my hearing is tested every year and is pretty good.
And I disagree with your posit that speakers only compress at volume extremes.
Amp slew rates are rarely published anymore. Does this mean it doesn't matter?
Even a casual comparison like those published by UHF Magazine of waveform and square wave signal input and speaker output reveals only a passing resemblance to the original signal. Step responses are usually poor .Speakers distort the most of any part in the signal chain.
And no, I don't believe anything with mass accelerates and decelerates perfectly.
I still believe there's some masking of low level signals in the presence of higher level signals. Listeners are expecting typically 3 to 6 raw drivers to form a cohesive sound wave which will, in an extreme case, reproduce the massed sound of an orchestra.
That's not even accounting for attempting to reproduce the sound of an event recorded in a given venue, yet played back in everybody's different living room.
If one completely geeks out over accuracy in playback, a person would need their recordings mastered to be played back in a standardized room, with standardized room treatments. And listen in a standard place in that room.
Obviously won't happen.
But I did have some Who Lps way back which printed suggested speakers and crossover points to set them at.Kudos to Pete for trying, but teenagers just wanted to play the record, not incur a parents wrath by modding the speakers.
Pun intended.
Quantum Resonance Theory
6moons audio reviews: Quantum Symphony Pro
Pulsed Electron Alignment
Audio Magic :: Pulsed Electron Alignment
Are the theories behind these products already discussed?
6moons audio reviews: Quantum Symphony Pro
Pulsed Electron Alignment
Audio Magic :: Pulsed Electron Alignment
Are the theories behind these products already discussed?
In raw figures speakers distort badly at various frequencies - for example my simple PC speakers generate enormous levels of 2nd, 3rd harmonics at their lower end, from 100Hz up for about an octave, very easy to hear the "bad behaviour". But, this doesn't get in the way of the rest of the frequencies being dealt with fairly well, which is where the real action is. The masking of the low level signals is part of the fundamental problem of why most playback doesn't sound right, and IME the speaker drivers are not the issue, at least once they're nicely warmed up.
The massed sound of the orchestra is not hard, simple full range drivers will do it easily, but the electronics must be well sorted out - if they are not, then the result will certainly resemble a confused mess; it's the ability to focus on a single instrument's contribution to the overall sound that makes reproduction realistic, and if that is not possible then what you have will never be able to hit the mark ...
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I believe the technical theory is that because reality, at the scale of elementary particles, behaves in certain ways then these effects must be heard / experienced at our scale.
The marketing theory is based on the fact that at first glance it seems plausible, until you look into it a little deeper.
Don't have to look anywhere that exotic - plenty of normal, everyday stuff mucking up the sound, perfectly straightforward, understandable things. Trouble is, you can't just throw a 'magic' something into the middle of a misbehaving system, and for it to suddenly go all perky - it's just tedious, boring, matter o' fact troubleshooting that's gets the job done - no gee whiz, instant orgasm solutions out there, I'm afraid ... 
Actually, bass cabinets like reflex, tapped horn, and high order bandpass units will have group delays. That's why I prefer front loaded horns and sealed boxes.
jn
Hi,
Could it be that whatever chemical product was used to dye the sheathing somehow corrodes the top layer of the wire?
Ciao,
Could it be that whatever chemical product was used to dye the sheathing somehow corrodes the top layer of the wire?
Ciao,
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