It's something like that I want to build...
Edit: Maybe not soundwise but speaker-wise...
Or like this http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jensen.htm
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the EL166/woofer6 doesn't have quite those limitations - maybe on paper only about 3dB more sensitivity, but a helluva fun driver for the money
http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/EL166-data-100610.pdf
2 drivers per side powered by only 12-15 watt EL84 P/P amp was plenty loud and deep enough in 320sq ft room for "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo" and "Post-Modern Blues" - two of my warhorse test tracks for bass weight, articulation and imaging - in other words what falls apart when the big strings are plucked and far left hand pounded at the same time.
I've yet to hear an HK that I didn't like, it just turned out that the only one I've owned is a long in the tooth 630 Receiver - not an arc-welder like the big Citation amps of olde, but still enough for KLH 17s in the workshop.
I gotta sympathize with Rull on this one. I love the EL70, but it's still a full range driver, and that means something has to give. Some spectrally dense modern rock can't get very loud at all and it's falling apart IME. Full range drivers are tender. And that's with mine crossed at 80hz. Cone barely moving but not crazy. I think it might be the cone break up. I should do some power compression sweeps.
True. The EL70 are fabulous for not-so-dense music at low-mid levels. The midrange is superb, but as you said, it has its limits unfortunately
Okay, found something the Mar-Kels can play pretty well.
The album called Sketches of Tokyo with Jon Hicks. It's pretty much only piano and a saxophone and I can play that almost as loud as I wish without it starting to sound bad. The saxophone and piano sounds very realistic, I know that since I have several friends playing piano and one friend playing saxophone (which by the way is a cool instrument!).
The album called Sketches of Tokyo with Jon Hicks. It's pretty much only piano and a saxophone and I can play that almost as loud as I wish without it starting to sound bad. The saxophone and piano sounds very realistic, I know that since I have several friends playing piano and one friend playing saxophone (which by the way is a cool instrument!).
My old EL70 are playing again! A center speaker for dad. 32mm thick oak baffle. 12mm particle board (same as in my Mar-Kel) but a 22mm backside. A 22mm thick particle board holey brace. Drivers wired in series. Crappy no-name cable. Used the rest of my CSS Ultratouch as dampening. Applied it to bottom, sides and back.
Have only confirmed that it works, have yet to see how good it sounds. Must do a new Audyssey EQ calibration on the Onkyo 607 but can't do that right now.
KLH 17s in the shop
I think my first go with the EL70 will be conjoined with 17s, maybe two pair, so maybe they (the KLH) will finally surpass an equivalent AR. OK, I don't remember a 10" 2-way AR; so what. I still want a KLH to win, once. Meanwhile I'm thinking of 4 AR4s + 1 Advent tweeter for my next shop speaker. The Polk 10s have failed the cone gawk test. Learning curve: doped curved cone with rubber surround don't mean nothing. I HATE vulnerable assumptions!
I think my first go with the EL70 will be conjoined with 17s, maybe two pair, so maybe they (the KLH) will finally surpass an equivalent AR. OK, I don't remember a 10" 2-way AR; so what. I still want a KLH to win, once. Meanwhile I'm thinking of 4 AR4s + 1 Advent tweeter for my next shop speaker. The Polk 10s have failed the cone gawk test. Learning curve: doped curved cone with rubber surround don't mean nothing. I HATE vulnerable assumptions!
Got my digital Radioshack SPL-meter today. Set it up correctly at ear level at listening position.
After using the compensation table here -> How accurate is the Radio Shack SPL meter - Agoraquest - Sony Forum, News, Reviews I got following values.
31.5Hz 65dB
40Hz 75.5dB
50Hz 90.5dB
63Hz 81.5dB
80Hz 62.5dB
100Hz 73dB
125 Hz 64.5dB
160 Hz 75.5dB
200 Hz 65.5dB
250 Hz 80.5dB
315 Hz 83.5dB
400 Hz 78dB
500 Hz 81.5dB
630 Hz 79dB
800 Hz 85dB
1 kHz 80dB
1.25 khz 83dB
1.6 kHz 80.5dB
2 kHz 79.5dB
2.5 kHz 87.5dB
3.15 kHz 76.5dB
4 kHz 83dB
5 kHz 86dB
6.3 kHz 93dB
8 kHz 85dB
10 khz 62dB
12.5 kHz 71.5dB
16 kHz no reading
20 kHz 65dB
I had to turn up the volume quite much to be able to get a reading at 31.5Hz to start with.
I made some interesting observations during this test. I noticed a strong resonance at 200Hz. I put my hand on the cabinet and yes, it was vibrating a lot. Any ideas to get rid of that resonance? It sounded really bad I must say.
Another interesting observation was that on higher frequencies it sounded like the volume wasn't constant. It sounded like the tone was going up and down in amplitude kind of. I think I even saw it on the SPL-meter but I can't say for sure.
I will try to solve the problems at 80-125Hz by tweaking the crossover frequencies. Then I will try to EQ the peak at 50Hz. About the top end I don't know if there's any idea to try solving it, or?
By the way, when I put the range of the SPL-meter at 60 the screen goes dead. Why is it so?
After using the compensation table here -> How accurate is the Radio Shack SPL meter - Agoraquest - Sony Forum, News, Reviews I got following values.
31.5Hz 65dB
40Hz 75.5dB
50Hz 90.5dB
63Hz 81.5dB
80Hz 62.5dB
100Hz 73dB
125 Hz 64.5dB
160 Hz 75.5dB
200 Hz 65.5dB
250 Hz 80.5dB
315 Hz 83.5dB
400 Hz 78dB
500 Hz 81.5dB
630 Hz 79dB
800 Hz 85dB
1 kHz 80dB
1.25 khz 83dB
1.6 kHz 80.5dB
2 kHz 79.5dB
2.5 kHz 87.5dB
3.15 kHz 76.5dB
4 kHz 83dB
5 kHz 86dB
6.3 kHz 93dB
8 kHz 85dB
10 khz 62dB
12.5 kHz 71.5dB
16 kHz no reading
20 kHz 65dB
I had to turn up the volume quite much to be able to get a reading at 31.5Hz to start with.
I made some interesting observations during this test. I noticed a strong resonance at 200Hz. I put my hand on the cabinet and yes, it was vibrating a lot. Any ideas to get rid of that resonance? It sounded really bad I must say.
Another interesting observation was that on higher frequencies it sounded like the volume wasn't constant. It sounded like the tone was going up and down in amplitude kind of. I think I even saw it on the SPL-meter but I can't say for sure.
I will try to solve the problems at 80-125Hz by tweaking the crossover frequencies. Then I will try to EQ the peak at 50Hz. About the top end I don't know if there's any idea to try solving it, or?
By the way, when I put the range of the SPL-meter at 60 the screen goes dead. Why is it so?
In my room? Think we've been through this before, haven't we?
Apart from ~105dB peak levels I was thinking of good response down to ~30Hz as well. Let's say a budget of $2000 but I don't mind if it's cheaper.
Niklas,
Do note tht every RS meter is at least bit different.
Here is the graph from your data (note that 16k was just deleted).
wrt to your box resonance issue: If we apply Bobiak's law "it is easier to just start over" i would advise building new boxes out of plywood... your 12mm chipboard is not cutting the mustard.
dave
Do note tht every RS meter is at least bit different.
Here is the graph from your data (note that 16k was just deleted).
wrt to your box resonance issue: If we apply Bobiak's law "it is easier to just start over" i would advise building new boxes out of plywood... your 12mm chipboard is not cutting the mustard.
dave
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Niklas,
Do note tht every RS meter is at least bit different.
Here is the graph from your data (note that 16k was just deleted).
wrt to your box resonance issue: If we apply Bobiak's law "it is easier to just start over" i would advise building new boxes out of plywood... your 12mm chipboard is not cutting the mustard.
dave
Well, I guess the differences aren't large enough to make my values much better.
I have actually been thinking about new cabinets during the last few weeks. I have chosen to build a pair of speakers as my project work at school. I'm not building the Econowaves so I'm looking for another project. So since I already have the baffles for the Mar-Kel70 I was thinking why not just spend a week or two building them properly? In that case I'll try to get the pieces cut by the shop.
Just tried playing some test tones again and the resonance occurs at ~185-220Hz and only on the right channel cabinet. If I put two 5kg weight plates on top of the cabinet it stops. If I press hard on the sides of the cabinet it also stops.
Edit: By the way, how did you make that graph? A program?
Do you know if it's possible to do that in OpenOffice or Google Docs as well?
Thanks for the graphs
Did a new measurement at 16k at about the same position as before and i got 58dB. This because I found out how to get the 60 range to work. If I just set the "wheel" at 60 the screen goes blank. But if I hold up the wheel a millimeter or two the 60 range works properly.
Did a new measurement at 16k at about the same position as before and i got 58dB. This because I found out how to get the 60 range to work. If I just set the "wheel" at 60 the screen goes blank. But if I hold up the wheel a millimeter or two the 60 range works properly.