maybe the ones in japan, like stereolith, but without the center tweeter.
Think a cylinder with a full range at both ends.
echo (speaker wave)
????-Echo ( ???????) - YouTube
Norman
Think a cylinder with a full range at both ends.
echo (speaker wave)
????-Echo ( ???????) - YouTube
Norman
Does anyone know where I can find an mp3 download on the web of white noise, pink noise, sine waves or any sound.....that is either right or left channel only? I've looked for hours and nothing. There are YouTube vids. But I need mp3 so that I can test the ambiophonic player on the neutron music player.
Thanx!
Thanx!
I just bought a pair!
They are going to need alot of eq. The response looks pretty ragged.
Thank god for the neutron music player
http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Headphones&document_srl=4285
I'm gonna test these out before designing my own.
They seem to be at a 90 degree spread.....still too far apart.
Maybe I will use the drivers from them.
But check out how the ports go into your ear! Pretty clever Sony.
I like sony's innovation with there products, but they never perfect them.
Just like the hmd I posted earlier, and there new crystal led tv at ces.
It's like they let their designers go nuts, release the product, then say.....ummmm, nevermind.
Of course there was the Walkman, compact disk, and blu-ray.
They are going to need alot of eq. The response looks pretty ragged.
Thank god for the neutron music player
http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Headphones&document_srl=4285
I'm gonna test these out before designing my own.
They seem to be at a 90 degree spread.....still too far apart.
Maybe I will use the drivers from them.
But check out how the ports go into your ear! Pretty clever Sony.
I like sony's innovation with there products, but they never perfect them.
Just like the hmd I posted earlier, and there new crystal led tv at ces.
It's like they let their designers go nuts, release the product, then say.....ummmm, nevermind.
Of course there was the Walkman, compact disk, and blu-ray.
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Ok you guys.......
I got a hold of a recording with a ping-pong, left-right stereo test.
I tested it on the neutron.
I played the track and plugged up one of my ears.
I tried every setting on it to see if the audio went silent to the opposing, non plugged ear when played through the plugged ear side.
It never did.
I did this indoors so maybe there were reflections.
I will try it outdoors to see if that makes a difference.
The sound was lower in amplitude and the image shifted to center, but I was hoping it would be completely cancelled or far lowered in amplitude.
Maybe someone else can conduct this experiment?
I got a hold of a recording with a ping-pong, left-right stereo test.
I tested it on the neutron.
I played the track and plugged up one of my ears.
I tried every setting on it to see if the audio went silent to the opposing, non plugged ear when played through the plugged ear side.
It never did.
I did this indoors so maybe there were reflections.
I will try it outdoors to see if that makes a difference.
The sound was lower in amplitude and the image shifted to center, but I was hoping it would be completely cancelled or far lowered in amplitude.
Maybe someone else can conduct this experiment?
dissapointing.
My abio demonstrator (on an open baffle so you could walk up to it and listen) used w3-871s drivers, the centers were 10" across. You didn't need a divider. Sounded best with the head about a foot away, maybe less.
Replicating it for headphone may be tricky. I'd start with cheapie headphone having them perpendicular to looking straight ahead, firing straight back into the ears.
Based on their port tube going into the ear (um, I don't want anything in my ears), you may need a larger driver, like 2 or 3". But now we are talking a large-ish thing (hardly headphones anymore.
The ping pong test may have had some ping pong in both channels. Ideally you make your own recordings. Have sound (sine wave) in 1 speaker only, then raise gain in other channel. I believe phase doesn't matter much on ambiophonics or headphones for that matter. You'd need to try stereophile's first couple of tracks on their demo cd#2. They do a left right test, then run voice out of phase, then in phase.
I know the cheapie smaller headphones seem to sound best pressed against the head. Having a driver out in front of you, I bet you need 3" drivers. Even then, the back should be sealed (or you will roll off below 1khz or so, yuck). Open backed headphones are faiely sealed to your head. Not titally, but it helps.
But don't fret, we usually drop lots of cash trying things. As long as your learn something, it is not a waste. You are out in front, r&d usually takes up 20-30% of a companies running expenses.
So long as the image is out in front of you, that's our goal. Seperation (binaural) is an added extra.
I have some raw delco 4" car speakers, maybe move them way nearfield.
Norman
Norman
My abio demonstrator (on an open baffle so you could walk up to it and listen) used w3-871s drivers, the centers were 10" across. You didn't need a divider. Sounded best with the head about a foot away, maybe less.
Replicating it for headphone may be tricky. I'd start with cheapie headphone having them perpendicular to looking straight ahead, firing straight back into the ears.
Based on their port tube going into the ear (um, I don't want anything in my ears), you may need a larger driver, like 2 or 3". But now we are talking a large-ish thing (hardly headphones anymore.
The ping pong test may have had some ping pong in both channels. Ideally you make your own recordings. Have sound (sine wave) in 1 speaker only, then raise gain in other channel. I believe phase doesn't matter much on ambiophonics or headphones for that matter. You'd need to try stereophile's first couple of tracks on their demo cd#2. They do a left right test, then run voice out of phase, then in phase.
I know the cheapie smaller headphones seem to sound best pressed against the head. Having a driver out in front of you, I bet you need 3" drivers. Even then, the back should be sealed (or you will roll off below 1khz or so, yuck). Open backed headphones are faiely sealed to your head. Not titally, but it helps.
But don't fret, we usually drop lots of cash trying things. As long as your learn something, it is not a waste. You are out in front, r&d usually takes up 20-30% of a companies running expenses.
So long as the image is out in front of you, that's our goal. Seperation (binaural) is an added extra.
I have some raw delco 4" car speakers, maybe move them way nearfield.
Norman
Norman
Oh sorry Norman, I tried the ambio demo with bookshelf speakers....not the headphones. I didn't get the headphones yet, they are shipping right now.
I know I'm confusing people because I'm talking about 2 different things in my last couple of posts.
I'm trying to test xtc with loudspeakers and seeing if I can get total cancellation, just to see how effective R.A.C.E. Is.
But don't worry, I will post impressions of the Sony headphones as soon as I receive them. I hear you about objects in the ear and I can't stand it either.
I think it's possible to get reference amplitude with a focused array around the front of the ear.... Then port it in the back of the ear. Ya know, like a circle around the ear?
I know I'm confusing people because I'm talking about 2 different things in my last couple of posts.
I'm trying to test xtc with loudspeakers and seeing if I can get total cancellation, just to see how effective R.A.C.E. Is.
But don't worry, I will post impressions of the Sony headphones as soon as I receive them. I hear you about objects in the ear and I can't stand it either.
I think it's possible to get reference amplitude with a focused array around the front of the ear.... Then port it in the back of the ear. Ya know, like a circle around the ear?
I had an idea a long time ago.
Most people already have a 5.1 or 7.1 system right?
Well, I suggest recording engineers should record each member of a band in there own sound proof room and mix them for dolby digital or dts.
Then we set all of our speakers up in the front of the room.
That way each musician will have a separate speaker.
This way we won't have to worry about room treatments.
The band will always sound as if they are in your room.
Presto!
Of course this will only work for small ensambles.
And its always they are hear, never you are there.
Most people already have a 5.1 or 7.1 system right?
Well, I suggest recording engineers should record each member of a band in there own sound proof room and mix them for dolby digital or dts.
Then we set all of our speakers up in the front of the room.
That way each musician will have a separate speaker.
This way we won't have to worry about room treatments.
The band will always sound as if they are in your room.
Presto!
Of course this will only work for small ensambles.
And its always they are hear, never you are there.
Orquestral strings, winds, percussion and so on could be recorded with directional mics and in as much isolation as possible.
Crosstalk would no longer be an issue and the listening experience would be awesome. There may be a big enough number of audio freaks...- I meant potential customers- out there willing to fork out the price of such boutique recordings to make it possible. I for one certainly would.
Who knows a good recording engineer? Ummm....and a popular band?
I think we could get U2 to do it. The edge is a sound freak
Seriously, we will get 7 linkwitz plutos, ( because they should be omni speakers ) or maybe the omni's I'm working on right now
We will bring this demo to RMAF this year and blow their minds duuudes!
I think we could get U2 to do it. The edge is a sound freak
Seriously, we will get 7 linkwitz plutos, ( because they should be omni speakers ) or maybe the omni's I'm working on right now
We will bring this demo to RMAF this year and blow their minds duuudes!
I'd recommend a bunch of the wild burro betsy drivers (at $100-$110) and design a notch.
When I was into home theater, one of the best upgrades was the EXCACT same speaker model for all front channels. Not an mtm in the middle of 2-ways or 3-ways. And it didn't matter if it was using the same tweets and mids (but better than nothing).
Kind of a pain to get a tv that high if you are using 3-ways with 12" woofers in a tall cabinet, but very worth it.
Norman
When I was into home theater, one of the best upgrades was the EXCACT same speaker model for all front channels. Not an mtm in the middle of 2-ways or 3-ways. And it didn't matter if it was using the same tweets and mids (but better than nothing).
Kind of a pain to get a tv that high if you are using 3-ways with 12" woofers in a tall cabinet, but very worth it.
Norman
Well, Norman.....
I was speaking of this strictly for audio but.....
You gave me another great idea.
Acoustically transparent projection screen.
Using the method I talked about for the audio track.
Place the loudspeakers behind the screen.
Then have a 5 or 7 piece band pantomime for the video.
Oh, and we could shoot the video in the same room as the audio presentation!
That would be so trippy!
Oh, also it will be shot in high def 3d
That would be the ultimate presentation at RMAF this year!
It would certainly be best of show!
MLB, Wilson audio, Wisdom audio, YG acoustics, and all the other giants would be crying like little girls on their plane rides home! Hahaha!
Fear the diy'ers
I was speaking of this strictly for audio but.....
You gave me another great idea.
Acoustically transparent projection screen.
Using the method I talked about for the audio track.
Place the loudspeakers behind the screen.
Then have a 5 or 7 piece band pantomime for the video.
Oh, and we could shoot the video in the same room as the audio presentation!
That would be so trippy!
Oh, also it will be shot in high def 3d
That would be the ultimate presentation at RMAF this year!
It would certainly be best of show!
MLB, Wilson audio, Wisdom audio, YG acoustics, and all the other giants would be crying like little girls on their plane rides home! Hahaha!
Fear the diy'ers
Ok, just got the Sony headphones.
1st impression.
Studio recordings.....
The sound is not in the head but, not in front either.
The sound is wide, wider than the sennheiser hd598 but not much.
Radioheads king of limbs album is very studio and that's the one I judged these two phones with.
Then I played pink Floyds the final cut.
This album is binaural hybrid, same story. But there was more frontal imaging with the sony's. For instance, on the track...paranoid eyes, there is a rattling sound that pans left to right. On the sennheisers, the sound goes through the head, on the sony's, it passes in front of the eyes.
Next I tried the popular holophonics YouTube video.
On the sony's, I the imaging of the shaken matchstick box went around the head in a circle. I got great front imaging.
I've listen to this on the etymotic hf5's and the matchstick demo only imaged in the back of the head.
So my conclusion is that they are great for binaural recordings which seems strange because these recordings are done with a dummy head and the sound passes through the dummy pinna and again through my own pinna.
So maybe the head shadow is more important on dummy head recordings, and the pinna and ear canal are not?
I'm really disappointed at the lack of frontal imaging in studio recordings.
Maybe most are done with ITD in mind because I tried cross-feed on the neutron music player and....same story, no frontal imaging. This processor only does ILD.
I did watch some video on my iPad, and frontal imaging seemed to improve.
So maybe we need to see the objects in front to attach the sound to them.
Maybe if there is not frontal vision of the object making the sound, our minds say well, that sound must be coming from behind me?
But then again, the binaural tracks had frontal imaging.
One other thing, when I plugged the bass ports that go in the ears, there was far more frontal imaging. I don't know at what frequency sound starts to come through the port, I'm guessing pretty high up there, maybe around 500 Hz judging from how tinny it sounded when the ports were plugged. So that could also contribute to the ( sound coming from the sides ) imaging.
I only bought these sony's to see if it's worth it to design a pair of my own, and I curse Sony for doing another half-assed job. The drivers are puny, and the bass port in the ear thing that I thought was genius is actually ruining the imaging. The speakers are too far out, they should be closer and shooting straight at the outer ear.
I know it seems strange that I'm talking about headphones on the ambiophonics thread but, this does have to do with xtc and forward pinna cues.
1st impression.
Studio recordings.....
The sound is not in the head but, not in front either.
The sound is wide, wider than the sennheiser hd598 but not much.
Radioheads king of limbs album is very studio and that's the one I judged these two phones with.
Then I played pink Floyds the final cut.
This album is binaural hybrid, same story. But there was more frontal imaging with the sony's. For instance, on the track...paranoid eyes, there is a rattling sound that pans left to right. On the sennheisers, the sound goes through the head, on the sony's, it passes in front of the eyes.
Next I tried the popular holophonics YouTube video.
On the sony's, I the imaging of the shaken matchstick box went around the head in a circle. I got great front imaging.
I've listen to this on the etymotic hf5's and the matchstick demo only imaged in the back of the head.
So my conclusion is that they are great for binaural recordings which seems strange because these recordings are done with a dummy head and the sound passes through the dummy pinna and again through my own pinna.
So maybe the head shadow is more important on dummy head recordings, and the pinna and ear canal are not?
I'm really disappointed at the lack of frontal imaging in studio recordings.
Maybe most are done with ITD in mind because I tried cross-feed on the neutron music player and....same story, no frontal imaging. This processor only does ILD.
I did watch some video on my iPad, and frontal imaging seemed to improve.
So maybe we need to see the objects in front to attach the sound to them.
Maybe if there is not frontal vision of the object making the sound, our minds say well, that sound must be coming from behind me?
But then again, the binaural tracks had frontal imaging.
One other thing, when I plugged the bass ports that go in the ears, there was far more frontal imaging. I don't know at what frequency sound starts to come through the port, I'm guessing pretty high up there, maybe around 500 Hz judging from how tinny it sounded when the ports were plugged. So that could also contribute to the ( sound coming from the sides ) imaging.
I only bought these sony's to see if it's worth it to design a pair of my own, and I curse Sony for doing another half-assed job. The drivers are puny, and the bass port in the ear thing that I thought was genius is actually ruining the imaging. The speakers are too far out, they should be closer and shooting straight at the outer ear.
I know it seems strange that I'm talking about headphones on the ambiophonics thread but, this does have to do with xtc and forward pinna cues.
yes, and binaural is basically ambiophonics.
But listening to binaural recordings on youtube of streams and such, the sound is rich, but not in front (normal headphones).
You are getting close.
In ambiophonics, the right ear does not get the sound from the left speaker (like binaural).
Now, it's getting the sound out in front of you, thats the challenge.
Full range drivers supposedly can center image without software or a divider, but I've never run a stereo full range driver setup. I know a 3-way non time aligned sounded great with a barrier. And a close field 10" center seperated 3" drivers open baffle sounded awesome on normal recordings. James Taylor was right in front of you, not a hazy blob of his voice. And it seemed about head sized too.
So you are close, very close. Maybe you can return the headphones.
Remember in the ambiophonic website how the ear flap's folds affect freq response as you move from directly into the ear to in front of you.
Norman
But listening to binaural recordings on youtube of streams and such, the sound is rich, but not in front (normal headphones).
You are getting close.
In ambiophonics, the right ear does not get the sound from the left speaker (like binaural).
Now, it's getting the sound out in front of you, thats the challenge.
Full range drivers supposedly can center image without software or a divider, but I've never run a stereo full range driver setup. I know a 3-way non time aligned sounded great with a barrier. And a close field 10" center seperated 3" drivers open baffle sounded awesome on normal recordings. James Taylor was right in front of you, not a hazy blob of his voice. And it seemed about head sized too.
So you are close, very close. Maybe you can return the headphones.
Remember in the ambiophonic website how the ear flap's folds affect freq response as you move from directly into the ear to in front of you.
Norman
Yeah, full rangers can image a center because of the increasingly narrowing polar response at high frequencies. Which is why I'm a fan of them in conjunction with R.A.C.E. If the drivers are large enough you can cut off processing before it becomes a destructive force for the natural xtc the drivers themselves are producing.
I'm definitely going to return the headphones. No doubt.
Don't get me wrong though, they really sound good and produce a wide soundstage, but like I said they are an experiment.
I might go all out and build some headphones like I would a loudspeaker.
Minidsp, sure 4*100 amp board with an MTM driver arrangement with some 1 inchers. Placed right on the sideburn area, firing right at the outer ear.
After seeing the puniness of the Sony driver, I know I can get three 1 inchers to play very low with minimal distortion.
I'm definitely going to return the headphones. No doubt.
Don't get me wrong though, they really sound good and produce a wide soundstage, but like I said they are an experiment.
I might go all out and build some headphones like I would a loudspeaker.
Minidsp, sure 4*100 amp board with an MTM driver arrangement with some 1 inchers. Placed right on the sideburn area, firing right at the outer ear.
After seeing the puniness of the Sony driver, I know I can get three 1 inchers to play very low with minimal distortion.
Sorry Norman, I'm getting a mental image of you and James Taylor face to face between you speakers! Hahaha!