Yes, a good read.
Mostly it demonstrates that difficult to read discs cause motor and servo noise that can find its way to the analog outputs via the power supply. As to whether that noise is actually heard was not established.
Also found in this test is: "The DSA-1 confidence test showed that all discs were numerically identical to the master data."
So no missing bits, no "in between" bits, no unrecoverable errors. That's good news. That motor and servo noise can get into the analog output - I think we have already conceded.
Mostly it demonstrates that difficult to read discs cause motor and servo noise that can find its way to the analog outputs via the power supply. As to whether that noise is actually heard was not established.
Also found in this test is: "The DSA-1 confidence test showed that all discs were numerically identical to the master data."
So no missing bits, no "in between" bits, no unrecoverable errors. That's good news. That motor and servo noise can get into the analog output - I think we have already conceded.
HEY MO HEY RON
A VERY BRILLIANT DIGITAL AND AUDIO ENGINEER ONE SAID..
"analog is easy..it's all about getting the amplitude right..
Digital.. you must get the timing right!!!"
try CLUBMYCE or tomshardware and see how much difference there is in read speeds of SDD and HDD and Flash devices.. wow.. did somebody say seperate power supplies and buffers!!!
is it possible that as fast is every thing is in the computer world our brains still process faster?
A VERY BRILLIANT DIGITAL AND AUDIO ENGINEER ONE SAID..
"analog is easy..it's all about getting the amplitude right..
Digital.. you must get the timing right!!!"
try CLUBMYCE or tomshardware and see how much difference there is in read speeds of SDD and HDD and Flash devices.. wow.. did somebody say seperate power supplies and buffers!!!
is it possible that as fast is every thing is in the computer world our brains still process faster?
You only need to get the timing right for time critical protocols. There is no such protocols involved in ripping, storing and transferring data. A good start for beginners is to read the difference in bulk data transfer vs isochronous audio transfer in the USB specs.
The differences in speed for HDD or SSD drives are completly irrelevant to the topic at hand. The "speed" of the computer is way ahead of any signal you can feed into a DAC anyway.
The differences in speed for HDD or SSD drives are completly irrelevant to the topic at hand. The "speed" of the computer is way ahead of any signal you can feed into a DAC anyway.
Cause and effect reversal error.
Don't worry, the only way to truly avoid ever doing that is to omit the application entirely.
1) Power supply
Errorcheck and recovery won't strain your power supply; however, a random selection of power supply is highly likely to strain your errorcheck and recovery.
Let's not reverse cause and effect.
Let's put that in audiophile terms--an amplifier has a tiny bit of input signal along with a great big input from the power supply, which means the power circuit is more important by the exact same factor as the gain. So, I hope its not necessary to make further mention about the great importance of healthy power circuits.
However, we can put the information to work. . .
Tool: Use RMAA, RightMark Audio Analyzer and a 1/8th" stereo to 1/8" stereo cable. You're absolutely correct that power supply deficiencies show up in the analog realm. SO, go measure it for free.
And, get proof!
That software costs nothing. If you find the majority of its output indecipherable, simply look at the frequency response chart and multiply any error by 10 in order to translate that chart into something you might hear.
The chart is what you would hear.
The amplitude (severity) mismatches the ear by about 10x.
It would also be good to use a voltmeter at a molex power plug, because even if the power is clean, it does happen to need to be at the right voltage, 5v and 12v, not some other figure. Its allegedly supposed to be regulated power and that needs to work.
If the RMAA chart is already really horrible looking (instead of a flat line), go re-adjust your mixer settings, especially so that your sound card doesn't attempt to amplify itself (the Creative Labs default setting is to amp its own output, which is incorrect).
If playing with the mixer settings doesn't do it, there's a big ol power noise in your computer somewhere. In this case, please fast-forward to the point of making backups before you do anything else. Please don't over-write old backups--make new, additional, backups.
P.S.
Yes, its true that different components vary in their ability for power noise rejection. Some components actually make additional noise, which is doubly un-helpful, since the electronic noise could get into every circuit, including your audio card. This is yet another possible cause of variety during playback. If your computer has this problem, it may also cause your computer to be more quirky in behavior.
For example:
I have a computer in my shop right now. Its here because its gigabit ethernet port doesn't work very well.
It also has a USB "sound card" plugged in because the onboard sound is ugly. Sata connectors read back an unacceptable error rate, although for no conceivable reason, the IDE is just fine. It has a top name brand power supply originally made by the Fortron Source people.
But even they can make mistakes, and they certainly did.
Unfortunately, the motherboard is also corrupt because it was fed the poison of bad power for several years, so there's not much left of this computer, although it appeared to be functional just last week.
Since the dvd writer, ram chips, and hard drive has now all passed testing (dvd scan, memtest86, GRC Spinrite), they've been economically recycled into an HP DC5100.
I wish the owner had their computer fixed before wasting money on replacement sound card, replacement hard drive, replacement ethernet port, etc. . . which, in combination could have paid for a repair that was applicable to the problem instead of allowing their computer to break down.
This scenario is common, and could cause a great deal of unwanted variety in your audio. So, its a good illustration to please fix the actual problem rather than. . . something else. Fixing the actual problem works instantly, and its really not expensive, as you can see.
I've no opinion this, but rather questions.
What if using virtural instrument technology along with a USB powered midi keyboard?
What if using ASIO and a prosound effects processor (or radio station sound branding processor) with that USB DAC?
Well, in practice, that sort of thing is a lot of trouble; but, in theory, was it really actually supposed to be easy?
Man, that's a bad example of an otherwise working filter technology. 6922 acts as a microphone. This shouldn't go inside your computer. lol! "zzzzzzzzttt clickity bumpity blip!" with gain!! lol!
Replace with Peking 6n11 or any other compatible product that doesn't include any accidental inbuilt microphone feature.This tube technology can be used as a valid harmonic filtering of MP4, HD-Radio and AAC type music codecs because some people actually suffer headaches from listening with those types of sound files.
Its not exactly ridiculous, because a vacuum tube is better than a headache.
More traditionally, that technology is used as a harmonic filter for electronic guitar.
These filters do the job that equalizers cannot.
Generally, such technologies do work and is excellent for those who need it. It is, at least, readily available, which is a necessary concept. See also our vacuum tube forum and the "Computer Preamp" types of projects.
Consider the vacuum tube based harmonic filter as an "Ear Adapter" that could possibly prevent/reduce injury. This works for guitarists every day. It can also be used to help create a non-painful presentation that sounds good loud. This fact can assist in making very powerful amplifiers, likewise, become more useful.
A tube of this same type saved my Sony HD radio from the trash can, mainly because the audio section that Sony made is. . . irresponsible
And, only somewhat because the MP4 sound really could stand to be more pleasant. That would be useful.
It is!
The tube is a wonderful and selective way to put the gag on noise that I honestly don't want to hear. This is yet another example that a tube is better than pain.
Of course its possible to do the exact same harmonic filter job with solid state, but nevertheless, availability of that is low.
I was wondering about parameters, high and low, when it works, when it fails.
You listed only one parameter, which is the "when it works" but this doesn't contain any information necessary to effect a repair or prevent a problem.
Honestly, it really was a surprise to hear that the stuff is supposed to work so easily. I'm a computer repairman. So, I see the worst, every day. I also see that almost half of brand new purchases for replacement parts, are flawed so that they must be returned.
Therefore, it seems more important to know the "what makes it fail" parameters.
There's probably no need to mention that power supplies and commonplace junk quality USB cables are frequent failure modes because we already covered that and especially because I have an unattractive pile of each of those. But, what else causes data failures and glitches for USB CD writing? I'd love to know.
Well, as soon as you speak about USB DAC and the like, we enter into the playback realm, where there are time critical protocols and where timing is getting important. No contest from me here.
The original question of the thread (= what I had in mind in my answer) was that there are audible differences in between identical files (=same checksum) ripped from a CD to the computer in different ways (to HDD, to pen drive, etc) or in between identical files that were renamed or moved around. In those actions, we do not depend for the final results on perfect timing... the data can be error-checked and re-sent if needed.
But obviously, when software is buggy, hardware shot by ESD or bad design... anything can happen.
I think your brain broke when you looked at Destroyer OS's latest thread.
Hanging out here ain't gonna help your recovery.
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Playback on USB DAC usually has a buffer, unless you've turned on some sort of low latency feature. Hey, the buffer is a good thing so your audio doesn't skip.
Yes, if you move your files around often enough, that does increase the chance of error. Anyone remember original Napster in the mid 90's? Man, that made a lot of error. Ever get a partially saved jpeg file, with the bottom part sort of blank? That's a similar problem.
However, computers vary considerably on the occurrence of this type of error.
Because of this concern, I'd like to recommend a purchase for you:
HOLIDAY SALE HP FAST MT P4 3.2GHz System + 1 CENT SHIPPING & Delivery Before Christmas! AG152AW PZ583UA#ABA DC5100
This, inexpensive HP DC5100, features a corporate grade build (not specifically designed to wear out like a retail build), an APFC power supply, end-user adjustable speed thermostatic fans, the very compatible XP pro, The 3.2GHz prescott is faster than most people's laptops and features low lag, a dual channel memory controller (that you need to exploit), and a professional grade intel or broadcomm discrete gigabit ethernet port with the specific feature of extremely low lag--this will probably speed up your internet browsing. It has a lot of professional features and it also has corporate grade data integrity.
Additional materials: Two of 2gb DDR2 memory, A well reviewed 7200RPM Samsung hard drive ($45), the free Samsung alignment tool, Norton Ghost for Dos (or a similar tool), and a well reviewed DVD writer ($25).
If you favor wireless, I'd recommend an economical Atheros based wireless card or something well-reviewed from Belkin.
Although the onboard sound card is decent, you could use a Via based sound card for an improvement. This could be an M-Audio Audiophile 192 or it could be an Encore $15 Via Tremor. The main chip is the same technology. The $15 version needs small "bypass caps" added to the two large electrolytic caps that are up against the green output jack. The bypass cap thing is a popular audiophile sport. In this case, you can use RMAA to see the 15k to 20k droop which is the HF failure mode of overlarge output caps. Simply put additional small caps on the back of that $15 board. The $15 version also doesn't come with the NJM4580D preamp like the expensive cards. However, that op-amp chip doesn't cost $130.
A paralleled pair of NJM4580D still doesn't cost that much and that does (output of M-Audio Revo 5.1 silver jack) make a great clear dark-voiced presentation with the impact dynamics of club sound, so a preamp like this could conceivably sell for that much. But, with the $15 card, you could simply use your own choice of preamp.
When using an add-on sound card, set that computer's energy saver in the bios screen to standard rather than enhanced so that there's decreased electronic noise.
Well, I think this post makes a complete picture of a satisfying and economical replacement computer that was designed a) for all parts to work well together 2) for professional corporate grade data integrity. You certainly wouldn't want your banker using anything less. That sort of equipment should decrease the occurrence of the errors that you mentioned.
My DC5100 mini has 197 tabs open in Firefox, Avira antivirus, Ghostery, TACO, BetterPrivacy, Adblock Plus, Zone Alarm, is currently coding PDF's and is currently playing back audio files with Foobar, over the gigagibit port, from a the Synology NAS (which also has a backup unit added). Of course it has 4gb ram in dual channel (2x2gb ddr2) and a hard drive with its own huge on-disc memory cache. This DC5100 is still going fast, hasn't been restarted in a week, and, just like every day, its standing up to a workload that no retail computer could tolerate.
Sure its outdated, but all attempts to replace it with something better have failed. As a computer repairman, I do have access to a lot of equipment. Nothing comes close to the rock steady fast performance of the DC5100 for cruising the web and playing music. Its not high-spec, but its very low lag. Somehow the uncomplicated quality build decreases errors and just goes faster.
Well, something comes close. Its the DC7100, which takes the older style DDR memory. That model is otherwise the same computer. Its usable to recycle older computers into wonderful computers quite economically. In this case, I connect the pair of 1gb ddr chips, the hard drive and the optical drive that I previously sold my customer, run memtest86, Spinrite, and dvd scans as a quality control, and then their old computer is effectively re-cycled without making duplicate purchases.
By what? From what? To what? As in, values.
My computer at work runs on the network from hell. Its slow, clunky, and circles the world three times in the endless attempts of the corporate to control its inner demons.
Yet every day, it downloads my personal settings (not stored locally - corporate is too paranoid for that) and rebuilds my desktop and personal files. Every day. I've been there five years. So thats (roughly) 1200 working days.
The only error occurred when the 10 year old HDD called it quits.
But the next day, everything was there again due the remarkable backstop of twice-daily full system backups.
Napster's files? Meh. More likely the result of significant user error - it was p2p so you were trusting some pimply 14yo kid to accurately and completely rip and store the data. Hardly a set-up for critical file acquisition.
Again, what critical, definable differences in playback arise from the media? None.
hi danielwritesbac,
It must be you that rings me from the "Computer Maintenance Department" to tell me that I have some problems with my computer and if I follow your simple instructions you will remotely diagnose the problem for me.
hi danielwritesbac,
It must be you that rings me from the "Computer Maintenance Department" to tell me that I have some problems with my computer and if I follow your simple instructions you will remotely diagnose the problem for me.
Sorry, this time, I couldn't diagnose the exact problem.
But, replacing the problem was still possible.
Fortunately, its inexpensive to do it nicely.
Whoever said power supply first probably got it right; however, a motherboard will corrupt if run for a long enough time on bad power, and of course there's a considerable amount of power circuit on the motherboard itself, which may be the problem instead of, or in addition to, the power supply.
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