"More" being a relative term in this regard. IMO I got more than I paid for (what could be expected for the price) with this DAC, the T-amps, the shigaclone etc.
The UTCs, Jensen etc. are way overpriced on ebay IMO, sadly.
How would you rate the sound of a decent opamp (and erased 2nd opamp section) vs. the cheap transformers?
Is it still an upgrade or should people save 200USD for the real deal from the beginning if they want to use transformers?
Cheap
I am going to try the Jensen JT-11-YM at $32 just for fun. They should sound really good if they are not a little too small to handle the level. You might be able to write to Vigortronix to get better info but they are probably a little too small also. I would want to see the distortion charts similar to those that Jensen publishes. Too bad that Edcor redesigned their web site and seems to have removed the graphs of their transformers. Even their big stuff is rediculously cheap but they don't make anything with a high nickel core that is big enough for this application.
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Will you be happy with something cheap or will it nag at you to try something wound on a better core. I always like to start right out near the top considering that time and money spent ordering, shipping and installing adds up.
I am going to try the Jensen JT-11-YM at $32 just for fun. They should sound really good if they are not a little too small to handle the level. You might be able to write to Vigortronix to get better info but they are probably a little too small also. I would want to see the distortion charts similar to those that Jensen publishes. Too bad that Edcor redesigned their web site and seems to have removed the graphs of their transformers. Even their big stuff is rediculously cheap but they don't make anything with a high nickel core that is big enough for this application.
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Will you be happy with something cheap or will it nag at you to try something wound on a better core. I always like to start right out near the top considering that time and money spent ordering, shipping and installing adds up.
I am not sure what the final cost is for the Edcors if they are getting shipped to Europe. But in the USA the Edcors will be about 1/4 or 1/5 the price of the inexpensive Jensens (most of the Jensens are actually around $75).
Are the Edcors a great deal for the money - Yes! Will you get better sound if you pay 5-10 times more - probably. Is it that much better? The listener has to decide that one.
I did want to reiterate what Bill has said in the past. All these transformers will present an inductance which will in turn act as a high pass filter (the cutoff is in part determined by the source and load impedance). Also the distortion is dependent on both the load and the voltage. So it is very difficult to get accurate numbers from the manufacturer or to guess whether there will be a problem in your own configuration. In most cases you will simply need to try for yourself and find out.
Hint, buy or borrow one first before you commit too much money.
Everything is relative. In my view, if it sounds better to you, it was an upgrade, regardless of other's opinions.
I've compared lots of trafos, but I don't have a single opamp in my entire system so I would be a fool to try to give an opinion on opamp swaps.
If you want to try good but cheap, just try a straight OP through a decent film cap from one output leg and ground off the board. Sendler has tried it and says it sounds fine.
JT-11-YMPC
I just talked to Jensen and was interested to find out that the JT-11-YMPC was a new custom design for the output of a keyboard that the manufacturer asked Jensen to aim for certain performance numbers. The Y was for the first letter of the keyboard's name and has nothing to do with the usual D, E, F, sizing scheme that the other JT-11 transformers follow so it will be fun to compare them to my JT-11- FMCF. The lowest DCR and power handling was traded off for the best distortion performance and price.
I just talked to Jensen and was interested to find out that the JT-11-YMPC was a new custom design for the output of a keyboard that the manufacturer asked Jensen to aim for certain performance numbers. The Y was for the first letter of the keyboard's name and has nothing to do with the usual D, E, F, sizing scheme that the other JT-11 transformers follow so it will be fun to compare them to my JT-11- FMCF. The lowest DCR and power handling was traded off for the best distortion performance and price.
I do not intend to derail the very interesting output transformer vein of this thread, but I do need some help with my DAC. Things were running just fine. I shipped it to a friend. It ran fine there. After shipping back to me, I get nothing out.
I've tried all jumper positions with appropriate input sources: optical, coax, and USB.
I've tried different inputs sources with each of the input formats: e.g. cd player, computer, and ipod transport.
In all cases, nothing from the analog out.
The power supplies LEDs light up. The 'usb' input lights up when connected to a USB source.
Can anyone suggest a starting point for troubleshooting? I have the 2009/2010 version of the board.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Ryan
I've tried all jumper positions with appropriate input sources: optical, coax, and USB.
I've tried different inputs sources with each of the input formats: e.g. cd player, computer, and ipod transport.
In all cases, nothing from the analog out.
The power supplies LEDs light up. The 'usb' input lights up when connected to a USB source.
Can anyone suggest a starting point for troubleshooting? I have the 2009/2010 version of the board.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Ryan
Hi Ryan
The same thing happened to someone else and it was a break in the 5V supply to the jumper pins. The input selector pins need 5V potential to work. Under the board there are two 10K SMD pull up resistors between the pins, check they are ok.
Get a DVM and check for 5V on the input selector pins. It might be a dry joint in the supply path.
The jumper pins are supplied by the third regulator in from the left looking from the back of the board.
This is a busy regulator. It also supplies the upsampler, S/PDIF receiver and optical receiver.
Also check for continuity between the jumper pins and pins 10 & 11 on the S/PDIF receiver board.
Otherwise it might be the CS8416 at fault, does the relay click at all? These have been known to fail. Check that you have correct voltages at the DAC and receiver supply pins - refer to the datasheets.
If your'e using the upsampler board, try using it without. Samplers have been known to fail too.
Hope you figure it out mate
ps. also check the correct settings on the DAC chip adapter switches - sometimes it's the simplest thing we miss!
The same thing happened to someone else and it was a break in the 5V supply to the jumper pins. The input selector pins need 5V potential to work. Under the board there are two 10K SMD pull up resistors between the pins, check they are ok.
Get a DVM and check for 5V on the input selector pins. It might be a dry joint in the supply path.
The jumper pins are supplied by the third regulator in from the left looking from the back of the board.
This is a busy regulator. It also supplies the upsampler, S/PDIF receiver and optical receiver.
Also check for continuity between the jumper pins and pins 10 & 11 on the S/PDIF receiver board.
Otherwise it might be the CS8416 at fault, does the relay click at all? These have been known to fail. Check that you have correct voltages at the DAC and receiver supply pins - refer to the datasheets.
If your'e using the upsampler board, try using it without. Samplers have been known to fail too.
Hope you figure it out mate
ps. also check the correct settings on the DAC chip adapter switches - sometimes it's the simplest thing we miss!
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tests
It could be anything. Check voltages. Can you hear the relay click on? You can try a quickie direct out with clip leads to eliminate the opamp section and relay. Remove the upsampler and reinstall the four jumpers. Have your friend buy you another one to swap modules with. It is much easier to measure things and compare if you have an identical functional unit.
It could be anything. Check voltages. Can you hear the relay click on? You can try a quickie direct out with clip leads to eliminate the opamp section and relay. Remove the upsampler and reinstall the four jumpers. Have your friend buy you another one to swap modules with. It is much easier to measure things and compare if you have an identical functional unit.
JT-11-EMCF on ebay
I guess I will have to try a pair of these Jensen JT-11-EMCF too, now that I have the transformer bug.
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Jensen JT-11-EMCF Line Output Transformer - eBay (item 280586870487 end time Dec-08-10 18:09:47 PST)
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I guess I will have to try a pair of these Jensen JT-11-EMCF too, now that I have the transformer bug.
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Jensen JT-11-EMCF Line Output Transformer - eBay (item 280586870487 end time Dec-08-10 18:09:47 PST)
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So which edcor transformers should we get for this 1k min load v dac (wolf is 2k load). I think some one mentioned 10x the min load. But others are using jensen 600:600 units. I still dont get what they mean since its a transformer, its a short. SO like if our load/pot is 10k we should get 10k transformers 1:1?
hi all!!!
I would like for you guys to look at this drawing and see if it will work correctly before I connect it,It is a 1:1 Edcor TTPC EDCOR Electronics Corporation
Thanks alot
I would like for you guys to look at this drawing and see if it will work correctly before I connect it,It is a 1:1 Edcor TTPC EDCOR Electronics Corporation
Thanks alot
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While you are waiting for your components to arrive you can try the transformers with no filters. Direct in. Direct out. Then, let us know which way sounds better. With or without the series resistors in the way.hi all!!!
I would like for you guys to look at this drawing and see if it will work correctly before I connect it,It is a 1:1 Edcor TTPC
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http://www.edcorusa.com/Manuals/TTPC_0900.pdf
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Thanks alot
