And which amazing things would they be ?
The latest generation of Mark Audio drivers as an example of one i have personal experience with. ex-pat British (with a bit of Japanese help) design, Chinese made. At least some of the pro-audio stuff (my Edirol FA-66)
Excellent performance. Low price.
dave
I thought i did, the inside of the JA99D looks a bit like the hotrodded Parasound HCA3500, the BBQ by the Curl amigos.
Same weight and height, footprint area is down 25%, means ; substantial more aluminum weight in the chassis, heatsinks, front/back plates.
A new JA99D does under Y$2K overhere, drop 500 and i'd buy one just for the case and parts.
One can expect the semi's to be reasonably well matched, the heatsinks of the 99D are jewels.
I have a large room. I like to listen at levels safe for my hearing. But occasionally I like to crank it up really loud on some favourite songs. 5 minutes of really loud hopefully wont do long term damage.
I realise the Kef are only rated at 50W, but I assume that means they can average 50W all day, and accept peaks of 100W? - they are proper speakers so I assume they are rated in the propper way??
livesound (PA) speakers are rated like this. Or am I wrong about domestic speakers being rated this way?
I guess I just thought I would rather have a power amp that is cruising, rather than one running near to its rails.
As you near an amps max. power distortion goes up, and im sure the small signal will start to be modulated by the power supply working hard.
I know I would not be using the 500W of the Emotiva, just liked the idea of it cruising.
Hi A.Wayne,
Are you able to elaborate on the sound quailty of the Emotiva.
I am seeking a genuinely audiophile sounding amp.
detail and finesse is something I am seeking. I could not handle going down in detail level just to get extra power. I would also not want an amp that sounds harsh.
But yes. I agree that a more powerful amp would be better for many reasons.
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Im not a member there, but I might just join.
Been reading more on the ASKA amps here:
LIFEFORCE: Listening Impressions II
And thinking that they might be good
Still worried 100W is not enough.
Does anyone think that 100W is enough for Kef concerto?
I like to give them a good flogging.
More than enough. They are only really rated at 50 watts and thats on a good day
Spec says 50w peak. And with those drivers (and the DN12 XO) that is about right. Momentary peaks of 100W, maybe cruise all day at 5-10W average.
9.5w --> 96 dB 1m, 100w is gonna give 106 dB
These were never intended to play real loud.
dave
Hello Erin,
I have heard only the mono bloc on apogees and cannot say they were harsh sounding , but this is all relative as you know, compared to the other amps around at the time , rowland 5's and a threshold s500 then yes, compared to a jungson 99D , i doubt it ...
Personally i have not heard or read negative comments from anyone, who felt let down after buying one even their 400.00 unit and i have not heard any of the diy units here, so i cannot compare or offer an opinion vs other DIY units ...
The Emotiva was absolutely positive in performance for the price
( cannot leave this out) and no offense, i not sure the Kef's would do the amplifier justice and I'm sure you will be upgrading and modding it in short order anyway .....
I had planned on using Emotiva whenever i get around to re-doing my AV system, i had planned on using there processor and amplifiers. Another route for you, getting a highly rated used amplifier instead....
regards,
I have heard only the mono bloc on apogees and cannot say they were harsh sounding , but this is all relative as you know, compared to the other amps around at the time , rowland 5's and a threshold s500 then yes, compared to a jungson 99D , i doubt it ...
Personally i have not heard or read negative comments from anyone, who felt let down after buying one even their 400.00 unit and i have not heard any of the diy units here, so i cannot compare or offer an opinion vs other DIY units ...
The Emotiva was absolutely positive in performance for the price
( cannot leave this out) and no offense, i not sure the Kef's would do the amplifier justice and I'm sure you will be upgrading and modding it in short order anyway .....
I had planned on using Emotiva whenever i get around to re-doing my AV system, i had planned on using there processor and amplifiers. Another route for you, getting a highly rated used amplifier instead....
regards,
I built new crossovers to the same specs but, thicker wire inductors and nicer capacitors.
Hello Erin,
..... and no offense, i not sure the Kef's would do the amplifier justice and I'm sure you will be upgrading and modding it in short order anyway .....
regards,
Hi a.wayne,
I dont take offense, but I like my concertos. I have gone to hifi shops and listened to other speakers, but I honestly never heard a modern speaker that I liked more than the KEF. I heard speakers that were very good, and detailed and nice, but did not make me want to part with the money. I like the sound of wide baffle speakers. Towers tend to upset me (not always -but usually)
anyway with the crossover mods, and new seas tweeter, they dont sound anything like a standard unmodified concerto. They are far more detailed and dynamic. I have turned them from a clasical speaker into a rock speaker
Interesting about the Emotiva amp is that it's boards and parts share an uncanny resemblance with the ones of Advance Acoustic's high-flyer, even the layout details of both amps are strikingly similar.
Advance Acoustic is a French company, French designs, with production taking place in China.
A pair of their monoblock amps cost €6k-€7k overhere, $1K for a stripped down version in a stereo package is pretty frugal.
It has become quite common for amps of different brands to be manufactured in the same Chinese facility, examples are some Parasound and Emotiva models.
The XPA-1 and the monaural of Advance Acoustic seem to go a step beyond that.
"Genuine audiophile" is something completely different though, imo.
jacco, that is very well spotted!
that is amazing! the only difference appears to be the front panel!
time for a some pictures:
Advance Acoustic MAA 1000:
Advance Acoustic MAA 1000 inside:
Emotiva XPA-1
More XPA-1
The difference seems to be mostly in the Biasing of the MAA 1000.
Specifications for the MAA 1000:
- 1 x 400 watt mono power amplifier (1 x 550 watts in to 4 ohms).
- 1000vA toroidal transformer, hybrid assembly of FET & bipolar high-current transistors.
- Class A operation for first 40 watts; auto commutation to Class AB above 40 watts.
- High Bias mode, for Class A operation up to first 80 watts.
that is amazing! the only difference appears to be the front panel!
time for a some pictures:
Advance Acoustic MAA 1000:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Advance Acoustic MAA 1000 inside:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Emotiva XPA-1
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
More XPA-1
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The difference seems to be mostly in the Biasing of the MAA 1000.
Specifications for the MAA 1000:
- 1 x 400 watt mono power amplifier (1 x 550 watts in to 4 ohms).
- 1000vA toroidal transformer, hybrid assembly of FET & bipolar high-current transistors.
- Class A operation for first 40 watts; auto commutation to Class AB above 40 watts.
- High Bias mode, for Class A operation up to first 80 watts.
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Notice that various parts are identical.
For instance the heatsinks, rounded corners and same number of ribs.
Both are bridged amps, with seemingly identical amp boards.
They differ in the power supplies : 1200VA EI versus 1000VA toroidal transformer, both use 63Vdc electrolytic caps but different brands.
Bennic foil caps in the Frog, something other Chinese in the US brand.
Not sure if the Advance Acoustic products are sold in the US, but they'd likely do the same amount in US$ as the euro price tag.
For a reference, the Halo JC-1 is manufactured in Asia, $9K in the US and €8K here.
€6K minimum for the MAA1000 in Europe would imply $6K or more in North America.
Makes the Emotiva monaurals look rather attractive at $2K the pair to an economist, no ?
For instance the heatsinks, rounded corners and same number of ribs.
Both are bridged amps, with seemingly identical amp boards.
They differ in the power supplies : 1200VA EI versus 1000VA toroidal transformer, both use 63Vdc electrolytic caps but different brands.
Bennic foil caps in the Frog, something other Chinese in the US brand.
Not sure if the Advance Acoustic products are sold in the US, but they'd likely do the same amount in US$ as the euro price tag.
For a reference, the Halo JC-1 is manufactured in Asia, $9K in the US and €8K here.
€6K minimum for the MAA1000 in Europe would imply $6K or more in North America.
Makes the Emotiva monaurals look rather attractive at $2K the pair to an economist, no ?
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I agree with Planet 10 when it comes to the distribution of the harmonics, but only to a degree.
The distortion spectra is related directly to the design, any correctly designed solid state power amp, should be able to offer extremely low distortion into an 8 ohm load.
Depending on the design this could be dominated by 2nd or 3rd harmonic, but this is academic as all the distortion products should fall well below the threshold of human hearing.
Some people will prefer the sound of an amplifier with high distortion.
The large 60hz spike and other related peaks in the spectrum plot in the emotiva review isn't hinting at poor power supply rejection, imo. This is far more likely to be a ground loop and will be dependent on the rest of the system.
Increasing the bias of a class B amplifier such that it's going to operate in class A for 10 watts, or 20 watts, or whatever, is not necessary. If it does indeed bring about a significant improvement in measured distortion then it simply shows that the design is lacking in some way.
The fact the Jung 99D has such 'high' distortion is somewhat worrying as a class A design is significantly easier to design for. This could be intentional on the part of the designer, or it could not.
Either way none of this really matters unless you're trying to build something yourself. Given the choice I would probably opt for the Emotiva amp.
I dislike the use of class A, mainly due to it's many inefficiencies and not because of it's potentially superior technical performance.
In the case of the Jung, you're paying for a lot of waste in terms of heat and in terms of output power, but because of poor design you're not gaining the technical benefits of using a class A output stage, . This to me seems a waste.
No doubt others will come in here saying the exact opposite. At the end of the day the choice is up to you and it seems that this thread has already divided opinions on the matter.
The distortion spectra is related directly to the design, any correctly designed solid state power amp, should be able to offer extremely low distortion into an 8 ohm load.
Depending on the design this could be dominated by 2nd or 3rd harmonic, but this is academic as all the distortion products should fall well below the threshold of human hearing.
Some people will prefer the sound of an amplifier with high distortion.
The large 60hz spike and other related peaks in the spectrum plot in the emotiva review isn't hinting at poor power supply rejection, imo. This is far more likely to be a ground loop and will be dependent on the rest of the system.
Increasing the bias of a class B amplifier such that it's going to operate in class A for 10 watts, or 20 watts, or whatever, is not necessary. If it does indeed bring about a significant improvement in measured distortion then it simply shows that the design is lacking in some way.
The fact the Jung 99D has such 'high' distortion is somewhat worrying as a class A design is significantly easier to design for. This could be intentional on the part of the designer, or it could not.
Either way none of this really matters unless you're trying to build something yourself. Given the choice I would probably opt for the Emotiva amp.
I dislike the use of class A, mainly due to it's many inefficiencies and not because of it's potentially superior technical performance.
In the case of the Jung, you're paying for a lot of waste in terms of heat and in terms of output power, but because of poor design you're not gaining the technical benefits of using a class A output stage, . This to me seems a waste.
No doubt others will come in here saying the exact opposite. At the end of the day the choice is up to you and it seems that this thread has already divided opinions on the matter.
Wow !
Love the meters on the Advance Acoustic model, I wonder how much Emotiva would charge for Meters ...
I'm not a fan of Chinese products, typically in the past they look good , but flatters to deceive. This is apparently changing and while not there as yet, they are obviously making great strides and making better products.
Audio being audio , we might never like the sound of Chinese amplifiers ( as has happened to Jap brands) but their Manufacturing and product quality will eventually be second to none ..
Erin ,
i would still go for the bigger power , just take your foot of the gas ....
Regards,
Love the meters on the Advance Acoustic model, I wonder how much Emotiva would charge for Meters ...
I'm not a fan of Chinese products, typically in the past they look good , but flatters to deceive. This is apparently changing and while not there as yet, they are obviously making great strides and making better products.
Audio being audio , we might never like the sound of Chinese amplifiers ( as has happened to Jap brands) but their Manufacturing and product quality will eventually be second to none ..
Erin ,
i would still go for the bigger power , just take your foot of the gas ....
Regards,
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