How to persuade people on the Internet

[scottjoplin]

Hmm. You know, I am not entirely sure anymore that you are Scott Joplin.

"When I'm dead twenty-five years, people are going to begin to recognize me."

 

[picowallspeaker]

Fourier applies to any waveform with no more than a finite number of finite discontinuities. Last time I looked, all audio waveforms (whether electrical or acoustic) have no discontinuities.

It works when the system is LTI
It doesn't work when it isn't
Go figure...when the system comprises the ( human) listener

 

[Juergen Knoop]

It works when the system is LTI
It doesn't work when it isn't

this is why following the Carnegie book is so difficult

 

[Pano]

Here's a question: Why would you want to persuade people on the internet? What is the purpose or goal?

(that was 2 questions)

 

[JMFahey]

Originally Posted by DF96
For example, Fourier theory is a fact; those who deny it are not expressing an opinion but merely exhibiting ignorance.

Till the signal arrives at speaker's terminals and not considering some factors like thermical and vibrational.
.......
When the signal ( transduced ) leaves the speaker, it's another story

So you claim Fourier Analysis does not apply to the Acoustical Wave leaving the transducer?

Wow!!!, you clearly chose the second path.
And to dispel any doubts you wrote it twice.

Pano Here's a question: Why would you want to persuade people on the internet? What is the purpose or goal?

FULLY agree.
I never ever try to persuade anybody about anything, specially on a Forum; just state some opinion and if somebody agrees, fine; if not ....

 

[leadbelly]

As a corollary to SY quote, people won't want to learn something if it means learning that they have wasted significant time and money on false beliefs.

True about not even trying to convince anyone on the internet. It's like the Chris Rock joke about your woman not letting facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

[DPH]

I do remember reading a few papers on having people explain the underlying principles of their position (not their bylines), as means of softening people's stances. It was postulated that the perspective shift is due to a greater realization that what was black and white is more grey and complex than their original view.

E.g. explaining something like having a vaccine denier germ theory and herd immunity and keep asking more fundamental questions to get past their pre programmed responses to where the person has to make original statements from principles.

 

[Pano]

It was postulated that the perspective shift is due to a greater realization that what was black and white is more grey and complex than their original view.

I still try that approach from time to time. I don't think it's successful, though.

 

[spaceistheplace]

As SY once said, it can be difficult to teach someone something when their income depends on them not learning it. That explains a significant part of the 'failure to convince' we see on this forum. <snip>

Is that a grand total of zero personal responsibility?

 

[gpauk]

I'm not convinced that people who say that have had their views changed by persuasion are not just bluffing....

 

[spaceistheplace]

I’m not convinced you are saying this because you believe it or have supporting data, but rather just to sow doubt and spread hostility

;-)

 

[gpauk]

I used to be uncertain, but now I'm not so sure....

 

[scottjoplin]

To all those who want to change the world, try changing yourselves first, good luck with that........

 

[Pano]

Scott, don't go changing - to try and please me.

 

[PeteMcK]

In Aus, we have a TV program which analyses advertising:
The Gruen Transfer - Wikipedia
... not much logic involved in persuasion.....

 

[spaceistheplace]

A cursory look through the Internet would suggest otherwise.

Then perhaps what is lacking is logic?

 

[gpauk]

An interesting sub question is - does internet advertising work? Everyone I know runs adblockers, and ignores anything that looks like an ad. Yet it seems to be generating lots of revenue for the likes of facepalm. The targeted stuff generated by google etc, if you look at it, is usually garbage.

 

[scottjoplin]

How do you persuade people to get off the internet?

 

[DF96]

It works when the system is LTI
It doesn't work when it isn't
Go figure...when the system comprises the ( human) listener

Audio systems are approximately LTI. Most Fourier deniers do not claim non-LTI as the reason for non-Fourier - they just make non-Fourier statements about LTI systems.
The listener is not part of the audio system.

I do remember reading a few papers on having people explain the underlying principles of their position (not their bylines), as means of softening people's stances. It was postulated that the perspective shift is due to a greater realization that what was black and white is more grey and complex than their original view.

When arguing with someone you don't really know it can sometimes be difficult to understand exactly what you are arguing about. Someone denies a first-order effect: is this because they don't understand the basics, or because they are aware of a second-order effect which can modify it? On an audio forum it is most likely that they don't understand the basics, but sometimes the second-order effect is relevant. Even harder is someone who has heard of the second-order effect but then reveals in the discussion that they don't actually understand the first-order effect. I have sometimes seen someone confidently asserting something in one thread (as though they are an authority on the matter) yet in another thread it becomes clear that they lack basic knowledge.

 

[DF96]

An interesting sub question is - does internet advertising work?

Internet advertising works (for those who host it - as a revenue source) whether or not it works (for advertisers - as a marketing tool); all that is needed is that the marketers believe that it works, or at least are sufficiently fearful of their competitors use of advertising. There is a whole industry out there whose very existence relies on convincing others that advertising works.