I'm just lurking on this discussion since I don't like headphone listening that much and would never use any earbud product ever. I am interested in seeing a product considered excellent (98% percent "there") even with 10dB peaks and valleys in the FR, even after mods. I also thought it ironic the first moder called himself iPodpj
.EDIT - Also interesting the problem is blatantly obvious and inherent in the mechanical constuction and intended use.
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I also thought it ironic the first moder called himself iPodpj
Actually his favorite "mod" to the HD-800's was to listen to them with a pair of HD-650's on top of them and both played at the same time.
Like this:
http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/22/900x900px-LL-228496ff_A1.jpeg
se
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The HD800 was a disappointment to me... though the distortion is quit low and smooth FR thru the midrange. It is the huge upper midrange/ lower treble suck-out that drove me to find another. It just sounds excessively dull. However, FR EQ'ed flat helps a lot more than dampinging lower treble ringing... depends on music u listen to, i suppose. [dont anyone bother to tell me it doesnt eliminate resonances and decay times etc. I know EQ is a dirty word around here but what else can you do with such huge FR variations?]
Try one of the planar driver type of headphones, the HiFiMan is one of my favorite headphones now.... short of a multi $K electrostatic type.
-RNM
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Max,
It is amazing the lack of understanding of a spring and vibration damping you are demonstrating here. Take your car as an example. Leave the springs in the car and remove the dampers. Now drive down the road and tell me that the mass of the car will stop those springs from going into an oscillation. Same goes for internal to an engine. If you have every worked on a cylinder head you would know that there is always more than one spring at a minimum. This is because one spring alone will have a resonant frequency and a second spring wound with a different wire gauge or even a flat wound spring is used to produce two distinct resonant frequencies that can counter act each other. Now take one spring and it will not be long before the valve will hit the piston and your engine is toast! Everything you keep pointing to sounds like a mechanical vibration causing problems with an internal part to the device under test. I think Sy has given you enough reason to doubt your position but you just keep fighting against the laws of physics. The day you can achieve the type of transfer of acoustical energy into mechanical energy you can then invent an acoustical hammer to replace a mechanical one. It isn't going to happen.
It is amazing the lack of understanding of a spring and vibration damping you are demonstrating here. Take your car as an example. Leave the springs in the car and remove the dampers. Now drive down the road and tell me that the mass of the car will stop those springs from going into an oscillation. Same goes for internal to an engine. If you have every worked on a cylinder head you would know that there is always more than one spring at a minimum. This is because one spring alone will have a resonant frequency and a second spring wound with a different wire gauge or even a flat wound spring is used to produce two distinct resonant frequencies that can counter act each other. Now take one spring and it will not be long before the valve will hit the piston and your engine is toast! Everything you keep pointing to sounds like a mechanical vibration causing problems with an internal part to the device under test. I think Sy has given you enough reason to doubt your position but you just keep fighting against the laws of physics. The day you can achieve the type of transfer of acoustical energy into mechanical energy you can then invent an acoustical hammer to replace a mechanical one. It isn't going to happen.
You know everyone, everybody wants to be a self declared 'audio expert' (like me) and nobody wants to listen to the other guy's position, understanding, or even direct experience. I can leave the scene for awhile, and you all 'attack' each other.
There must be a better way to learn from each other. I'll try to do better, if you will! '-)
There must be a better way to learn from each other. I'll try to do better, if you will! '-)
Max, I might say that while I have experimented with such 'platforms' but I would never have thought that valve springs were useful for them. What is the approximate resonant frequency, anyway, that you normally get? Is it below 5 Hz for example?
In any case, many, many audio designers have experimented with spring isolation in phono turntables for example, and how to damp them. It is DIFFICULT to get a really good solution, as many of you know, but sorbothane is one good contender, EAR (company name) damping material, lead, etc are others. However it is difficult to get good isolation and damping at the same time. That is why we build our audio products with rugged materials, remove all the coupling caps and put damped feet under them. We TRY to minimize any vibration pickup.
In any case, many, many audio designers have experimented with spring isolation in phono turntables for example, and how to damp them. It is DIFFICULT to get a really good solution, as many of you know, but sorbothane is one good contender, EAR (company name) damping material, lead, etc are others. However it is difficult to get good isolation and damping at the same time. That is why we build our audio products with rugged materials, remove all the coupling caps and put damped feet under them. We TRY to minimize any vibration pickup.
I love my Audez'e LCD-2's. I'd take the HiFiMAN's a bit more seriously if it weren't for those stupid miniature RF coaxial connectors that Fang chose to use on all of their models.
se
The Audez'e are great, too. I have no trouble with connectors/plugs, yet. seem relaiable as long as they are kept screwed on tight. And, they have never loosened. So? The cable/cord is Canare-Japan. All works well after a couple years. Planars are just great.
Anyone looking to buy just once - go right to them and bypass the other types. They are in a league of their own. [but they aint Stax, either] Thx-RNM
Anyone looking to buy just once - go right to them and bypass the other types. They are in a league of their own. [but they aint Stax, either] Thx-RNM
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The springs don't damp. They isolate. At least above the resonant frequency of the spring/component combo.
se
I know this is OT (what isn't, here), but since all the cognoscienti (sp?) seem to gyrate to this place, here goes:
On the website of TI they show an SMD version of the LM3886, see pic.
But none of the usual suspects have them in their catalog.
Anyone seen one of those, or know where to get them?
jan
On the website of TI they show an SMD version of the LM3886, see pic.
But none of the usual suspects have them in their catalog.
Anyone seen one of those, or know where to get them?
jan
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shot down by the cognoscienti (sp?) ...again
Jan, just curious... were you motivated at all to find this chip by the other thread, NXP Semiconductors cleaning house ?
Jan, just curious... were you motivated at all to find this chip by the other thread, NXP Semiconductors cleaning house ?
I use a Technics SL-7 turntable.
Oh, man, it is one of the most intelligent device i had seen in audio. So intelligent and innovative. The best of all innovative ideas.
The plate is a direct drive, regulated by quartz, both simple and solid (no belt), perfectly stable (very low rumble and flutter) and fast starting.
The arm is a radial arm, with an optical error detection, smooth and precise.
Now, where the genius begins is they had put the arm in the cover. So, you don't have to wait for the arm to go outside of the record edge to change the disk: just open the cover, and, the arm will up in the same time. During the time you manipulate the disk, the chariot will set the arm at the beginning. Last advantagfe: the size of the turn table is the one of a record, because no room needed outside of the vinyl !
They have set a very simple detection system for automatism. The plate had some wholes letting LEDS shining across them. The record will cover them by its surface. The light's sensors are in the cover: so the plate knows exactly the size (this the speed) of the record: eveithing can be automatic: you place the record, push a button, and the head will find the beginning of the groove and land in a nice way (silent because the signal will be shorted during this time).
To chose a track, just push a button to go forward or rear.
You cannot manipulate the head by hand, so you are protected, and you cannot run the turntable without to close the cover: no durst on the vinyl.
Now, vibrations.
The plate is VERY heavy, in a non resonant material, the feet supspend the all stuff, damped in a very effective way at a low resonance. Amazing.
The arm is short, (radial) and with a rectangular profile: no resonnances.
The only issue was the aluminium plate, that i had solved with an heavy silicon+carbon cover: both anti resonant and electrically conductive to kill static.
The cover contain a very clever puck pressure witch press the disk label and reduce vinyl vibrations.
The cover is in a thick plastic, in several parts damped with rubber between them, and locked firmly when close: you have to press a button to unlock-it and open: no vibrations there neither and good acoustic isolation via air.
And all that, at the time for something around 500 $, if i remember well !!!!
Oh, man, it is one of the most intelligent device i had seen in audio. So intelligent and innovative. The best of all innovative ideas.
The plate is a direct drive, regulated by quartz, both simple and solid (no belt), perfectly stable (very low rumble and flutter) and fast starting.
The arm is a radial arm, with an optical error detection, smooth and precise.
Now, where the genius begins is they had put the arm in the cover. So, you don't have to wait for the arm to go outside of the record edge to change the disk: just open the cover, and, the arm will up in the same time. During the time you manipulate the disk, the chariot will set the arm at the beginning. Last advantagfe: the size of the turn table is the one of a record, because no room needed outside of the vinyl !
They have set a very simple detection system for automatism. The plate had some wholes letting LEDS shining across them. The record will cover them by its surface. The light's sensors are in the cover: so the plate knows exactly the size (this the speed) of the record: eveithing can be automatic: you place the record, push a button, and the head will find the beginning of the groove and land in a nice way (silent because the signal will be shorted during this time).
To chose a track, just push a button to go forward or rear.
You cannot manipulate the head by hand, so you are protected, and you cannot run the turntable without to close the cover: no durst on the vinyl.
Now, vibrations.
The plate is VERY heavy, in a non resonant material, the feet supspend the all stuff, damped in a very effective way at a low resonance. Amazing.
The arm is short, (radial) and with a rectangular profile: no resonnances.
The only issue was the aluminium plate, that i had solved with an heavy silicon+carbon cover: both anti resonant and electrically conductive to kill static.
The cover contain a very clever puck pressure witch press the disk label and reduce vinyl vibrations.
The cover is in a thick plastic, in several parts damped with rubber between them, and locked firmly when close: you have to press a button to unlock-it and open: no vibrations there neither and good acoustic isolation via air.
And all that, at the time for something around 500 $, if i remember well !!!!
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It's a very nice table- I used an SL15 as well because it came with a superb cartridge (EPC205C Mk3). Two problems- it did have some cyclic subsonic output, and for transparent records (like a particular Pablo Count Basie album I remember, pressed in red), it refused to run unless I put some tape over the LEDs. But fundamentally, it sounded good, had reasonable isolation, very good wow/flutter, and superb ergonomics. The cartridge was outstanding, one of the best I ever used.
No, they ain't Stax. But then I've always had this "thing" about high voltages near my temples. I dunno. Maybe it was that electroshock therapy scene from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest that did it to me.
My issue with the connectors is that they're rather a pain in the *** to deal with unless you're using RG-174 coaxial cable. You can make them work with regular wires, but it's sub-optimal as the connectors are made specifically for coaxial cable with a braided shield.
Perhaps not so bad if you're using a regular wire with extruded plastic insulation. Just strip, solder and cover it up with some heatshrink. But I'm using a fine strand litz wire with just a single silk serve and covered in braided silk sleeve. So things get really messy. Plus, the wires I'm using now are too large to fit through the tiny *** end of the connector in order to solder to the center pin.
http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/images/hifiplug.jpg
From an end-user standpoint, the connectors are pretty benign if you never or seldom remove the cable. With my LCD-2's, I remove the cable after every use. Also I have several cables of different lengths depending on how I'm using them (for example a really short cable for when I'm wanting to move around and am just using my iPod). The mini-XLR's make cable swapping a breeze.
Plus mini-XLR's are more suitable to regular wire termination and I like that you can have a termination without any heatshrink showing.
But that's just me.
se
Using a record jacket at the "null" direction from a pair of dipoles (Quad esl 63's) is pretty close to a test of controlled directivity. The secondary attenuated local reflections seem to be enough to be audible.
If I really wanted one I would just go for Stax. As it is one of the USB headphone amp guys designed in one of our xDSL drivers and was so happy with our personal service he gave us a pair of HD650's which I use occasionally (they're perfect for shortwave listening).
BTW how do planar drivers eliminate the head/driver cavity effect?
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