Hi all, I am wanting to possibly use this woofer, it's an Eminence 111712 - 18" Cast Frame Woofer that is on a Buy Out Sale at Parts Express right now!
- is it any good ? - It's on sale for - 109.88 ea, if you buy four , seems like a Great price for cast frame 18" woofer .
I'm thinking open baffle .... maybe a Ripole Woofer set up... or a PPSL ....
Thanks
- is it any good ? - It's on sale for - 109.88 ea, if you buy four , seems like a Great price for cast frame 18" woofer .
I'm thinking open baffle .... maybe a Ripole Woofer set up... or a PPSL ....
Thanks
Here is some information -
Eminence 111712 18" Cast Frame Professional Woofer 4" Coil 8 ohm
I have a big room to fill 28 X 17 feet a 17 x 6 hall way that's open also on one end and several large openings into the kitchen as well one is 10 x 10 feet - so I was really hoping for 18 inch woofers ... but money is tight - this seems like very good price , I have plenty of power/ watts available , so that's good, and I am thinking of at least initially using DSP to find the best place to crossover and what order of filter would be best .
Eminence 111712 18" Cast Frame Professional Woofer 4" Coil 8 ohm
I have a big room to fill 28 X 17 feet a 17 x 6 hall way that's open also on one end and several large openings into the kitchen as well one is 10 x 10 feet - so I was really hoping for 18 inch woofers ... but money is tight - this seems like very good price , I have plenty of power/ watts available , so that's good, and I am thinking of at least initially using DSP to find the best place to crossover and what order of filter would be best .
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The Eminence driver will be limited by Xmax for higher-output situations.
Given $400 to spend, I'd rather use one of these: OPEN BOX B&C 18SW115-8 18" Neodymium Subwoofer Speaker Driver
Which has enough excursion to match 3x Eminence drivers, while only needing 1x cabinet.
As you move towards high-end drivers, output density (SPL per cubic foot of cabinet) goes up and up.
If your goal is simply to have 4x 18" drivers, then the Eminence ones look fine. If you're happy to take a small performance hit, the B&C-loaded cabinet would take up far less space in your room.
Chris
Given $400 to spend, I'd rather use one of these: OPEN BOX B&C 18SW115-8 18" Neodymium Subwoofer Speaker Driver
Which has enough excursion to match 3x Eminence drivers, while only needing 1x cabinet.
As you move towards high-end drivers, output density (SPL per cubic foot of cabinet) goes up and up.
If your goal is simply to have 4x 18" drivers, then the Eminence ones look fine. If you're happy to take a small performance hit, the B&C-loaded cabinet would take up far less space in your room.
Chris
Hi - Thank you for helping out ... Here is a couple of the Ideas I was really interested in - just don't know if I can swing the cost down the road ... but I need Four drivers ....
-- First was this system - don't know if you are familiar with Trans-Fi Audio - ---
-- Trans-Fi Audio - My System
These are the Woofers he is using --- Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohms Per Coil
--- I wonder if one of the reasons Trans-Fi's Woofer set up worked so well was just the sheer size and quality of drivers - the 18 inchers and the pair of Behringer NX 6000D's that power the 18" woofers --------- I also thought I read in a RiPole design the amount of base increases because of the two drivers are mounted so close together? So that's why I was thinking that those woofers would do better than they would normally do... hmmmmm bummer.... maybe either used or go to 12 inch woofers ?
This is the second inspiration 6moons audioreviews: Ecobox Daydream
-- First was this system - don't know if you are familiar with Trans-Fi Audio - ---
-- Trans-Fi Audio - My System
These are the Woofers he is using --- Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohms Per Coil
--- I wonder if one of the reasons Trans-Fi's Woofer set up worked so well was just the sheer size and quality of drivers - the 18 inchers and the pair of Behringer NX 6000D's that power the 18" woofers --------- I also thought I read in a RiPole design the amount of base increases because of the two drivers are mounted so close together? So that's why I was thinking that those woofers would do better than they would normally do... hmmmmm bummer.... maybe either used or go to 12 inch woofers ?
This is the second inspiration 6moons audioreviews: Ecobox Daydream
The reason that system works is because the 18"s in use have a lot of displacement available. Mounting them isobaric won't gain much, though - a shallow H-frame would do the job just as well at increasing the effective path length.
So, I'd suggest that similar results could be obtained with 2x 18"s in total.
The Ecobox speakers appear to use a pair of Eminence Alpha 15A with half the basket covered with metal plates.
Chris
So, I'd suggest that similar results could be obtained with 2x 18"s in total.
The Ecobox speakers appear to use a pair of Eminence Alpha 15A with half the basket covered with metal plates.
Chris
You might want to read this; http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_slob.pdf
The Ecobox is a variation on slot loaded bass.
The Ecobox is a variation on slot loaded bass.
For what it's worth, unless you are striving for super loud, most 18" drivers are not going to need that much Xmax to deliver convincing low bass in a home sized room. I do fine with 4 Goldwood 18's with only 2mm Xmax. Granted these are far from the best drivers money can buy, but my advice is to buy what you can afford, enjoy, and upgrade when $ allows.
If we're looking at OB, even 18"s will need a good amount of Xmax. Put them in a large sealed box, though, and I'd agree.
FWIW, I once EQ'd some 15"s (Beyma 15P1200Nd, one per side) to hit 25Hz on an OB. Took 27dB of boost to get there, and cone excursion was getting to 30mm p/p at "demo" levels at around 3m listening distance.
Chris
FWIW, I once EQ'd some 15"s (Beyma 15P1200Nd, one per side) to hit 25Hz on an OB. Took 27dB of boost to get there, and cone excursion was getting to 30mm p/p at "demo" levels at around 3m listening distance.
Chris
Not sure why you had to do all that Martin King gets believable 1812 cannon shots from a pair of Goldwood 18's in H Frames and they scarcely move 1mm for levels that would drive you out of the room or at least put a big silly grin on your face. Pair them into a twin facing slot loaded baffle and you have an amazing sense of realism. Of course with more $$$ you can do lots of things but these are deeply (pun intended) satisfying
well,
that eminence, I like a ported box.
My dual 18 4mm (eminence clearance 17 years ago) pounded more than 4x12" 8mm xmax subs.
Deeper Ported 1 Standard ported
Vb 11.17ft3 vb 8.75 ft3
F3 31.77hz f3 34.88 hz
Tuning freq 27.64hz tune 30.28 hz
4" coil can take a lot of power.
very high sensitivity (loud with little power)
the 5.75mm xmax doesn't seem great, but balance that with 95db 1w/1m
for $120, I like it
but open baffle, you'd roll at FS/qts so drop below 75hz even on an infinite baffle.
But if you have the space, I'd get 4 of them versus a single 18 with monster xmax and monster power handling.
Less harmonic distortion because each driver is moving 1/4 as far.
that eminence, I like a ported box.
My dual 18 4mm (eminence clearance 17 years ago) pounded more than 4x12" 8mm xmax subs.
Deeper Ported 1 Standard ported
Vb 11.17ft3 vb 8.75 ft3
F3 31.77hz f3 34.88 hz
Tuning freq 27.64hz tune 30.28 hz
4" coil can take a lot of power.
very high sensitivity (loud with little power)
the 5.75mm xmax doesn't seem great, but balance that with 95db 1w/1m
for $120, I like it
but open baffle, you'd roll at FS/qts so drop below 75hz even on an infinite baffle.
But if you have the space, I'd get 4 of them versus a single 18 with monster xmax and monster power handling.
Less harmonic distortion because each driver is moving 1/4 as far.
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Hi thanks for everybody's ideas - yes I was thinking 4 of them would help.... I like the look of these two speakers with there Ripole set up , not necessarily the midrange and tweeters, but the set up with the woofers is very compact unlike if they were facing forward. And I think I read that a Ripole set up like this , can lower the frequency of the woofers by 10 Hertz, at least I think so - I need to go re-read the page I was on .
.... I have LOTS of watts with crossovers & DSP for the woofers too. I'm using Crown XTi 4002's .... so 1,200 - 3,200 watts depending on how they are set up.
.... I have LOTS of watts with crossovers & DSP for the woofers too. I'm using Crown XTi 4002's .... so 1,200 - 3,200 watts depending on how they are set up.
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another option is a tiny boxed 6th order, tuned to 20hz with 9db boost and rolloff.
But that 5-6mm xmax will be eaten up quick around 27 of so hz.
I don't have simulations, but tuned to 20hz, maybe 50 watts to skip out of xmax, maybe less.
but 4 of them, you'd hit over (50w = 17db, figure 200w total into the 4 drivers) so +23db, +95 1w/1m driver, -3db for the f3.
So 115db at 20hz and up (that's impressive at 20hz !!!!!!!!!!!!!!). And that's real power, I figure drivers don't get too much louder past 100w each.
ppsl them. Far better and cleaner than a $1630 rhythmic f18 sealed (104db @ 20hz) but you will need big boxes, eq, and an amplifier (800w, 200w for the 4 drivers but need +6db at tuning so 200w +6db goes up to 800w). But big crest amps can be had for cheap on ebay, or the inukes people seem to love.
But that 5-6mm xmax will be eaten up quick around 27 of so hz.
I don't have simulations, but tuned to 20hz, maybe 50 watts to skip out of xmax, maybe less.
but 4 of them, you'd hit over (50w = 17db, figure 200w total into the 4 drivers) so +23db, +95 1w/1m driver, -3db for the f3.
So 115db at 20hz and up (that's impressive at 20hz !!!!!!!!!!!!!!). And that's real power, I figure drivers don't get too much louder past 100w each.
ppsl them. Far better and cleaner than a $1630 rhythmic f18 sealed (104db @ 20hz) but you will need big boxes, eq, and an amplifier (800w, 200w for the 4 drivers but need +6db at tuning so 200w +6db goes up to 800w). But big crest amps can be had for cheap on ebay, or the inukes people seem to love.
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- Hi Norman, ---- I would be buying 4 of the woofers
---- very interesting ideas for the bass ----- but as a newbe it took me a couple of Days to figure out what you were taking about ... you may have to dumb things down just a bit -
After looking around at 6th order woofers - the design of one seems way out of my league.... what I have read is that they aren't easy to figure out especially a Series tuned one , and even a parallel Tuned 6th is nothing I'm familiar with -- most of what Iv'e seen out there are very large boxes too..?
- I also really like the idea of PPSL , but again I have no idea how to design the boxes to get it right ---?????
- Are you able to help me with the designs??
-- I think you might have missed the last of my post right above yours , I plan on going active for the woofers --- I have Crown XTi 4002 Amplifiers to handle the Bass, depending on the configuration they will put out somewhere between 1,200 - 3,200 watts each , they also allow many , many different crossover options, they have DSP , Delay, and Equalization all built in to them as well, so i think they should be okay ...
Best regards,
Dean
---- very interesting ideas for the bass ----- but as a newbe it took me a couple of Days to figure out what you were taking about ... you may have to dumb things down just a bit -
After looking around at 6th order woofers - the design of one seems way out of my league.... what I have read is that they aren't easy to figure out especially a Series tuned one , and even a parallel Tuned 6th is nothing I'm familiar with -- most of what Iv'e seen out there are very large boxes too..?
- I also really like the idea of PPSL , but again I have no idea how to design the boxes to get it right ---?????
- Are you able to help me with the designs??
-- I think you might have missed the last of my post right above yours , I plan on going active for the woofers --- I have Crown XTi 4002 Amplifiers to handle the Bass, depending on the configuration they will put out somewhere between 1,200 - 3,200 watts each , they also allow many , many different crossover options, they have DSP , Delay, and Equalization all built in to them as well, so i think they should be okay ...
Best regards,
Dean
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In a slot loaded bass configuration the typical recommendation is for the slot opening to be approximately one third the area of the total driver (two drivers in this case) Sd. By having the drivers face one another and playing in a push push mode you lower the Fs about 10Hz.
The larger the Sd the lower the Xmax will need to be. This will keep the drivers operating in their most linear response range with least distortion. I seem to be one who is particularly sensitive to what some call Doppler distortion from high Xmax excursion, which to my ear makes bass content seem smeared when compared to a live experience. This kind of smearing affects perception of upper bass as well. I think four 18" drivers in slot loaded or H frame designs crossed over below 70Hz are going to give you a wonderful foundation to your sound system. Whatever you choose to do keep us posted and let us know how it turns out.
The larger the Sd the lower the Xmax will need to be. This will keep the drivers operating in their most linear response range with least distortion. I seem to be one who is particularly sensitive to what some call Doppler distortion from high Xmax excursion, which to my ear makes bass content seem smeared when compared to a live experience. This kind of smearing affects perception of upper bass as well. I think four 18" drivers in slot loaded or H frame designs crossed over below 70Hz are going to give you a wonderful foundation to your sound system. Whatever you choose to do keep us posted and let us know how it turns out.
here's what I get for the Eminence as SBB4/ or 6th order box. As Vas is high, the box is around 253 liters for Qts = 0.29. That and tuning to fs limit power input in the 33Hz region to 20v. Le is a bit high - I don't think it would be as bad as the lossy Le model suggests.
It would make a cute little "3rd" order box at 80 liters or a bit less stuffed for those who don't need the bottom octave
It would make a cute little "3rd" order box at 80 liters or a bit less stuffed for those who don't need the bottom octave
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Goldwood GW1858 are fun - maybe a bit ripe Q-wise but low moving mass - the suspension must be "progressive" as doesn't bottom out easily vs their meager xmax figure - fwiw I'd use two GW1858 per side open baffle. That Eminence 18 would be ok in a Karlson but a version with lower inductance might be preferable.