Hi as I was looking on the net for a horn that can go down to 30Hz and is usable as a single cab I have come across this:
If the hornresp sim is accurate I think it looks very good on paper. It is a big box of course (going to 30Hz using a horn = big box).
It shelves -5db to 30Hz.
In my opinion that is very usable (look at some real measurements of BR cabinets and many of them don't really go to 30Hz. especially using big PA drivers).
Using 4 cabinets it goes almost flat to 30Hz and you can push a little lower.
Using The PD1850 the response is even better.
I can't find that much on this horn design so what do you guys think of it?
Another choice could be the labsub but it doesn't work this good as a single cab. I have to admit the labsub is smaller.
Second thing I was thinking about is the fact an 18" speaker is used and I wonder how it can hold up against the pressure? (compression is 2.84 so on the high side).
There is also this one http://wizardaudio.hu/hasznos/hangfal tervek/bass/horn/2X15 Big Bass Bin.jpg
One big piece of furniture.... Has it ever been build?That last one however is a little too big. Would not fit trough doors etc.....
The FSP-18-SXY Horn will be put in a corner of a pergola in the garden and also serve as a table.
The corner is enclosed with wood so there will be some corner loading effect altough it will not be perfect. But I think this will be enough for good results (and the neighbours will now...).
If needed I can take the cab with me to add sub on small parties. Putting it in a corner of the room wil work quite good.
-It's easier to build the a lab
-It only uses 1 driver altough for best results it would be an expensive driver. The PD1850 is a beast and ideal for horn loading and has a 5" voicecoil however it is not that cheap but only 1 driver is needed.
-the cab is roughlt 120cm X 120cm X 60cm so yes a big cab
So what do yuo guys think of it?
If the hornresp sim is accurate I think it looks very good on paper. It is a big box of course (going to 30Hz using a horn = big box).
It shelves -5db to 30Hz.
In my opinion that is very usable (look at some real measurements of BR cabinets and many of them don't really go to 30Hz. especially using big PA drivers).
Using 4 cabinets it goes almost flat to 30Hz and you can push a little lower.
Using The PD1850 the response is even better.
I can't find that much on this horn design so what do you guys think of it?
Another choice could be the labsub but it doesn't work this good as a single cab. I have to admit the labsub is smaller.
Second thing I was thinking about is the fact an 18" speaker is used and I wonder how it can hold up against the pressure? (compression is 2.84 so on the high side).
There is also this one http://wizardaudio.hu/hasznos/hangfal tervek/bass/horn/2X15 Big Bass Bin.jpg
One big piece of furniture.... Has it ever been build?That last one however is a little too big. Would not fit trough doors etc.....
The FSP-18-SXY Horn will be put in a corner of a pergola in the garden and also serve as a table.
The corner is enclosed with wood so there will be some corner loading effect altough it will not be perfect. But I think this will be enough for good results (and the neighbours will now...).
If needed I can take the cab with me to add sub on small parties. Putting it in a corner of the room wil work quite good.
-It's easier to build the a lab
-It only uses 1 driver altough for best results it would be an expensive driver. The PD1850 is a beast and ideal for horn loading and has a 5" voicecoil however it is not that cheap but only 1 driver is needed.
-the cab is roughlt 120cm X 120cm X 60cm so yes a big cab
So what do yuo guys think of it?
1) Looks like a reasonably easy to build, huge design.
2) Harder to build, and not quite as low of an Fc.
3) Shouldn't be a problem if kept within Xmax.
4) Sitting at a table with 130 dB of 30 Hz would not be my cup of tea ;^).
I like a little bit of headroom..... .
It's better to use only 10% of power at average then to push things. It just sounds better...
The pergola where this wil be placed on is also in the corner of the garden.
In this way it can cover the whole garden if needed.
The experience I have with horns outside is that they just work better then BR.
I also have fun doing the woodworking of this.
Gonna be a spring/summer project I think.
I will als ad some extra bracing as there isn't that much bracing on the plan
.It's better to use only 10% of power at average then to push things. It just sounds better...
The pergola where this wil be placed on is also in the corner of the garden.
In this way it can cover the whole garden if needed.
The experience I have with horns outside is that they just work better then BR.
I also have fun doing the woodworking of this.
Gonna be a spring/summer project I think.
I will als ad some extra bracing as there isn't that much bracing on the plan
- Due to the parallel enclosure sides, the expansion is mostly parabolic, only the first segment has a conical expansion, use the [P] key while in the field to change to parabolic.
- Specs are not for PD1850 or 1850/2
- As drawn the cone will hit the baffle it's mounted to, you need to add a riser ring and recalculate VTC to something realistic.
- VTC, as shown, is for a 21" driver, the 1850/2 is probably ~6.5l with an 18mm spacer.
I see what you mean. I adjusted the Hornresp sim and the response didn't change that much.
The driver parameters on the original plan are for another driver. The PD1850 performs better.
I made some simulations in hornresp as you can see here:
http://www.aman-nai.be/amano-hornresp.png
the light grey lines is simulation using the pd1850 and the original hornresp data.
The black lines is simulation using the pd1850 but vtc adjusted and using Parabolic expansion. It doesn't matter that much as you can see
PD1850 works best in this cab didn't find anything better yet
Putting the cab in a corner gets crazy results (112db/2.83v/m ?), looks a little bit to good to be true.
In halfspace the response still looks good, better then most horn designs I have found.
It's a big box but the result looks good.
The driver parameters on the original plan are for another driver. The PD1850 performs better.
I made some simulations in hornresp as you can see here:
http://www.aman-nai.be/amano-hornresp.png
the light grey lines is simulation using the pd1850 and the original hornresp data.
The black lines is simulation using the pd1850 but vtc adjusted and using Parabolic expansion. It doesn't matter that much as you can see
PD1850 works best in this cab didn't find anything better yet
Putting the cab in a corner gets crazy results (112db/2.83v/m ?), looks a little bit to good to be true.
In halfspace the response still looks good, better then most horn designs I have found.
It's a big box but the result looks good.
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Can you explain a little?
If I look at the hornresp response it does go to almost 30Hz and you can see in the impedance plot a peak at 30Hz. a second peak at 57.25Hz and then one at 91.78Hz
When using 1 cab it shelves because the mouth is not large enough.
Using 4 or putting it in a corner helps and then it goes to 30Hz
This is ofcourse accoring to the simulation of hornresp.
So if I look at it wrong please tell me, I like to learn
As Neo Dan points out, the excursion minima (Fc, Fb, tuning) is at 40 Hz.Can you explain a little?
If I look at the hornresp response it does go to almost 30Hz and you can see in the impedance plot a peak at 30Hz. a second peak at 57.25Hz and then one at 91.78Hz
So if I look at it wrong please tell me, I like to learn
At 30 Hz excursion is around double the Xmax of the PD 1850, so would require a steep HP filter just below Fc to keep it from gross distortion (or folding the cone like a cheap umbrella in a hurricane). The output potential at 30 Hz is therefore about 6 dB less than what your sim indicates.
I looked at it wrong too, this big horn doesn't go lower than the LAB horn ;^)
Ok thanks for the info guys.
The RCF LF18x451 has almost the same response.
But looking closer it is indeed more or less tuned at 40Hz (closer to 38Hz is the impedance minimum to be exact)
By making the chamber bigger the response on the lowside is better but excursion goes up.
Making the chamber smaller the response gets more peaky/ excursion goes down
Low side goes down as well.
With a smaller chamber you can also see more accurate what the tuning is.
Lower tuning means longer horn I guess?
Another option I considered whas the Tuba60 but it is a little bit weird in dimensions...and I'm not that convinced over the specs they say at the website of billfitzmaurice..... looks a little to good to be true.
I also looked at the labhorn but the dip at 40Hz doesn't look nice.
Another option was the 12PI horn but reading some stuff on the net there are people loving this design and people bashing the design.....
It doesn't need to use an 18". I actually like the 12" horns.
Maybe a scaled up punisher?
A lot to think about.
It's gonna be a summer project so I still have time to think about it. Any ideas or suggestions are ofcourse welcome.
The RCF LF18x451 has almost the same response.
But looking closer it is indeed more or less tuned at 40Hz (closer to 38Hz is the impedance minimum to be exact)
By making the chamber bigger the response on the lowside is better but excursion goes up.
Making the chamber smaller the response gets more peaky/ excursion goes down
Low side goes down as well.
With a smaller chamber you can also see more accurate what the tuning is.
Lower tuning means longer horn I guess?
Another option I considered whas the Tuba60 but it is a little bit weird in dimensions...and I'm not that convinced over the specs they say at the website of billfitzmaurice..... looks a little to good to be true.
I also looked at the labhorn but the dip at 40Hz doesn't look nice.
Another option was the 12PI horn but reading some stuff on the net there are people loving this design and people bashing the design.....
It doesn't need to use an 18". I actually like the 12" horns.
Maybe a scaled up punisher?
A lot to think about.
It's gonna be a summer project so I still have time to think about it. Any ideas or suggestions are ofcourse welcome.
OK So I was thinking about this design again.
Recently I have 2 Beyma 15lx60v2's leftover from another project.
So as I had very good experiences with the 12lx60v2 loaded into punishers I was thinking of scaling up the punisher design and fit in the 15lx60v2
The Folding of the punisher gets a lot of horn in a cabinet.
Scaling it up with a ratio of 1.4 seems to sim good.
Using a 15" the compression ratio is 2.58:1, so a little lower wich is better for 15". The 15lx60v2 is not the biggest horn driver but it's a speaker wich is usable with a lot of designs. So backing of the compression a little is a good thing.
The box will be 114,1cm X 98cm X 70cm
Still a big box but not so big as the design from the start of this tread.
Tuning is around 38Hz
Response will go untill 30Hz but displacement will go up, on the other side the response doesn't differ much from the design at the beginning of this thread but the box is a little bit smaller.
I also think it would be usable in singles.
The punisher loaded with the 12lx60 doesn't do really well in singles. with two together it's ok.
I'll see if I can get some print screens this week.
Recently I have 2 Beyma 15lx60v2's leftover from another project.
So as I had very good experiences with the 12lx60v2 loaded into punishers I was thinking of scaling up the punisher design and fit in the 15lx60v2
The Folding of the punisher gets a lot of horn in a cabinet.
Scaling it up with a ratio of 1.4 seems to sim good.
Using a 15" the compression ratio is 2.58:1, so a little lower wich is better for 15". The 15lx60v2 is not the biggest horn driver but it's a speaker wich is usable with a lot of designs. So backing of the compression a little is a good thing.
The box will be 114,1cm X 98cm X 70cm
Still a big box but not so big as the design from the start of this tread.
Tuning is around 38Hz
Response will go untill 30Hz but displacement will go up, on the other side the response doesn't differ much from the design at the beginning of this thread but the box is a little bit smaller.
I also think it would be usable in singles.
The punisher loaded with the 12lx60 doesn't do really well in singles. with two together it's ok.
I'll see if I can get some print screens this week.
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