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note from PWK 1985 re: T-S paraneters
note from PWK 1985 re: T-S paraneters
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Old 6th August 2018, 10:57 PM   #1
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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note from PWK 1985 re: T-S paraneters
Default note from PWK 1985 re: T-S paraneters

I don't currently have a scanner but will get a scan. I asked PWK about T-S and here's the content of his reply

PAUL W. KLIPSCH
President

May 1, 1985

Dear Mr. Ireson:

The Thiele parameters apply to direct - radiator speakers (closed box and bass - reflex) and not to horns.

If you put a wrong driver in a KLIPSCHORN you will not get acceptable response.

Sincerely,
Paul W. Klipsch
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Old 7th August 2018, 12:47 AM   #2
Brian Steele is offline Brian Steele  Grenada
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Originally Posted by freddi View Post
The Thiele parameters apply to direct - radiator speakers (closed box and bass - reflex) and not to horns.
Better not tell David that - Hornresp uses t/s parameters to sim horns, LOL.
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Old 7th August 2018, 05:16 AM   #3
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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note from PWK 1985 re: T-S paraneters
sssshhhh - we'll be quiet and he'll never know that doesn't work
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Old 7th August 2018, 09:25 AM   #4
David McBean is offline David McBean  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddi View Post
I don't currently have a scanner but will get a scan. I asked PWK about T-S and here's the content of his reply

PAUL W. KLIPSCH
President

May 1, 1985

Dear Mr. Ireson:

The Thiele parameters apply to direct - radiator speakers (closed box and bass - reflex) and not to horns.

If you put a wrong driver in a KLIPSCHORN you will not get acceptable response.

Sincerely,
Paul W. Klipsch
Hi freddi,

Fascinating stuff - thanks for posting!

It is interesting that in May 1977, Don Keele, working for Klipsch & Associates at the time, presented an AES paper entitled "Low-Frequency Horn Design using Thiele/Small Driver Parameters" :-).

Kind regards,

David
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Old 7th August 2018, 09:36 AM   #5
David McBean is offline David McBean  Australia
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Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
Better not tell David that - Hornresp uses t/s parameters to sim horns, LOL.
Hi Brian,

Just to clarify - Hornresp does not actually use T-S driver parameters in any of its simulation models (horn or direct radiator). It uses the traditional electro-mechanical parameters Sd, Bl, Cms, Rms, Mmd, Le and Re, as shown on the input parameters window :-).

Kind regards,

David
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Old 7th August 2018, 04:04 PM   #6
GM is offline GM  United States
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Yeah, all those [embedded] specs the pioneers used, but according to the folks that worship at the alter of T/S somehow concluded that they were clueless before T/S.

GM
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:28 PM   #7
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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note from PWK 1985 re: T-S paraneters
here's a scan of that note. IIRC, I once had another note from PWK where he poked some fun at "T-S parameters" - perhaps like he didn't know what they were

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11th September 2018, 11:01 PM   #8
Brian Steele is offline Brian Steele  Grenada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David McBean View Post
Just to clarify - Hornresp does not actually use T-S driver parameters in any of its simulation models (horn or direct radiator). It uses the traditional electro-mechanical parameters Sd, Bl, Cms, Rms, Mmd, Le and Re, as shown on the input parameters window :-).
Yeah, but they're all directly related . Hornresp will actually do the conversion if the driver's t/s parameters are provided on the "Input Parameters" screen after double-clicking the "Sd" field.
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:04 AM   #9
David McBean is offline David McBean  Australia
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Originally Posted by Brian Steele View Post
Yeah, but they're all directly related .
The parameters are related, but the ways that the simulation models work are quite different, which is the point I was trying to make originally :-). One obvious difference is that traditional T-S models do not take Le into account.
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Old 16th September 2018, 01:16 AM   #10
whgeiger is offline whgeiger  United States
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TS parameters are derived form measurements of low frequency, small signal driver performance. To arrive at an optimal match between horn and driver parameters to fill a particular acoustic mission requires evaluation of much more. How you characterize driver performance does not change the quality of the design effort so long as such is used appropriately. I find PWK's brevity amusing. WHG
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