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Another silly question
Another silly question
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Old 12th September 2019, 10:35 PM   #11
bobberner is offline bobberner  United States
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Another silly question
Thanks for the feedback folks. This was more of a rhetorical question but there are some very interesting answers.

From a design standpoint, I hate to see multiple boxes wired together. I also dislike that it was always a little tedious (but getting better) to flip switches on different devices to watch a particular program on TV or DVD/VCR, or select CD/Cassette/FM and then turn the tuner or cd player on. Look at how complicated TV remotes are, and why do we need a cable box anyway????

I do like using Alexa to listen to FM radio (reception is poor where I live) and also streaming services. We just got a FireStick with Alexa and that is nice being able to say Watch Bosch and it goes there and starts. Prior, I had to set the tv input to Apple TV, then scroll to find the Prime app, and then to find the program. My wife can't do that and therefore is always watching the Hallmark channel or HGTV.
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Old 12th September 2019, 10:39 PM   #12
bobberner is offline bobberner  United States
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Another silly question
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsavas View Post
Silly in that one needs to define features, costs. I find the chassis/appearance to be the biggest challenge and expense.
Reading Bob Cordell's book is a good place to start. Chapter 4 describes what it takes, but even then it does not address the chassis design.
You design me a chassis, I have power amps designs to trade.
Ok, be kind here, but what is difficult about designing a chassis? It is simply a box with enough space to mount your boards, switches, etc, and with a heat sink and attractive cover. Isn't it? Granted I have never designed a chassis but I have seen pictures of them.
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Old 13th September 2019, 12:10 AM   #13
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobberner View Post
Ok, be kind here, but what is difficult about designing a chassis? It is simply a box with enough space to mount your boards, switches, etc, and with a heat sink and attractive cover. Isn't it? Granted I have never designed a chassis but I have seen pictures of them.
I see you have no clue.

Ask any designer: once you commit to actual production, the "electronic" side of design seems trivial compared to the "mechanicals".

YouŽll go crazy first packing everything in a compact, practical layout, debugging hum, interference, thermal problems, plus picking the actual parts (pots/switches/connectors/heatsinks/etc.) , actual transformer, THEN designing a chassis, THEN designing graphics and aesthetics in general, THEN finding suitable suppliers, THEN paying and waiting for delivery.

As a side note, IF you find an error in the electric design, lr want to mod something, often you can use the basic same PCB or schematic, modding some values, pulling some parts or even adding a couple tack soldered on the back of the PCB.

Now try to do the same to a finished chassis if you want to add an extra pot or switch, or leave a couple holes unused ... including the text silkscreened besides them.
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Old 13th September 2019, 03:32 AM   #14
rsavas is offline rsavas  Canada
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I wish I could get chassis like $2 pcb
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Old 13th September 2019, 09:48 AM   #15
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobberner
Ok, be kind here, but what is difficult about designing a chassis?
You remind me of a manager I once had. He was Head of IT in an important UK company but seemed to have no idea about what his staff actually did - I don't know if he had worked his way up and forgotten, or come in from a different discipline. Anyway, whenever someone said that something might be difficult to implement his response was "That is just a piece of code". He may have been puzzled why his department had to pay high salaries to SET graduates from the UK's best universities in order to write this simple code.
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Old 13th September 2019, 10:22 AM   #16
edbarx is offline edbarx  Malta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96
It gets more difficult to design something better, so many people design something worse and then convince themselves that the flaws are actually desirable features.

Or you can just cobble together bits of other people's designs.
Design always involves 'cobbling together' other people's technologies, although in very rare cases, a new technology might be required.

What is wrong in using the advantages of known technologies?

I am increasingly noticing, this forum is burdened by members who do not like the presence of less fortunate members. Because they were socially lucky to have the means to attend and obtain degrees in engineering, they look down on anyone attending these fora if a poster's way of writing indicates they don't use the usual tell-tale engineering jargon.
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Old 13th September 2019, 10:39 AM   #17
ubergeeknz is offline ubergeeknz  New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edbarx View Post
Design always involves 'cobbling together' other people's technologies, although in very rare cases, a new technology might be required.

What is wrong in using the advantages of known technologies?

I am increasingly noticing, this forum is burdened by members who do not like the presence of less fortunate members. Because they were socially lucky to have the means to attend and obtain degrees in engineering, they look down on anyone attending these fora if a poster's way of writing indicates they don't use the usual tell-tale engineering jargon.
I haven't seen any evidence of looking down on, discouraging, or otherwise of the non pros among us here by the very knowledgeable and well studied members. Indeed quite the opposite. I myself have learned much in the short time I've been on these forums.

However, sometimes and quite understandably, folk who have spent the better part of their adult lives learning a trade will defend themselves against claims of "anyone can do it, it's easy".

It's also important to realise that in engineering disciplines, there is a culture of playing devil's advocate and of pointing out the potential problems in another's assertions, designs, etcetera. And it is no bad thing - it leads to better engineering. The trick is to not take it (too) personally - think about what's being said, and leverage it as a learning opportunity.
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Old 13th September 2019, 11:59 AM   #18
N101N is offline N101N
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Evidence shows that it is very difficult to design a high-performance amplifier. Well-educated electronic engineers are the worst designers. Instead of audio amplifiers, they design voltage regulators in accord with Control Theory.

A degree from a reasonable institution doesn't mean much. What is learned is not necessarily understood. Some personal qualities such as constructive ability, a sound sense and good taste are not acquirable through training, you either have them or you don't. There are no schools with amplifier design program. The audio branch does not have a dedicated theory.
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Old 13th September 2019, 12:53 PM   #19
edbarx is offline edbarx  Malta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N101N
Evidence shows that it is very difficult to design a high-performance amplifier.
But what is the reason for this difficulty? Definitely, it is not the electronics, but 'probably' something that science has not yet understood.

We understand how biological ears work: the inner ear has liquid filled canals, with their walls covered with sensory whisker-cells, that are sensitive to particular frequencies. So, electronically, this is like a large array of tuned LC circuits, that are slightly less than critically damped. To add more complexity to how biological hearing works, these sensory whisker-cells all have their nerves that connect to the brain's auditory area! This means, an electronic microphone, is a very rough approximation at how a biogical ear senses sound.

That was the sensory part, which is 'easier' to understand, but what about what happens inside the brain? How does it generate auditory perception of the different frequencies, and how does it deal with complex auditory signals?

The following link gives only some details of how the auditory area is organised. But, what do the various neural circuits do to create auditory perception?

The Auditory Cortex - Neuroscience - NCBI Bookshelf
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Last edited by edbarx; 13th September 2019 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 13th September 2019, 02:52 PM   #20
jan.didden is offline jan.didden  Europe
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But why would perception have anything to do with it? Isn't the goal to as faithfully as possible reproduce the sound from the source, adding nothing, take away nothing? That is a straight-forward engineering problem.

Jan
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