Back in the 80s I was pretty obsessive about getting the "right" sound. Then I went overseas for a couple of years and when I settled back home it seemed everything had changed. Nowadays I feel pretty out of touch with what's good and what's not.
I have a NAD 3155 that I used to like a lot but now sounds a touch "polite." My mother has another vintage amp (actually receiver) HK 380i that in some ways, at low volumes, I like better than my NAD. Basically, the bass is way better with the HK.
My question - how do these vintage gems compare with say, the 50-100W Onkyos, Denons, Sonys, Insignias, Sherwoods etc. I see these days in the box stores?
I don't want to buy one, hear that it sucks, and pack it all up again for a return. However, if there really is a substantial improvement, I would consider picking one up.
Opinions welcome.
Thanks.
I have a NAD 3155 that I used to like a lot but now sounds a touch "polite." My mother has another vintage amp (actually receiver) HK 380i that in some ways, at low volumes, I like better than my NAD. Basically, the bass is way better with the HK.
My question - how do these vintage gems compare with say, the 50-100W Onkyos, Denons, Sonys, Insignias, Sherwoods etc. I see these days in the box stores?
I don't want to buy one, hear that it sucks, and pack it all up again for a return. However, if there really is a substantial improvement, I would consider picking one up.
Opinions welcome.
Thanks.
As with all of these questions, you will hear wildly divergent views, many based on an opinion without anything other than their subjective perception coloured, of course, by things such as cost, status, peer perception, and other unsustainable notions.
Once the level and type of distortion disappears below the threshold of the capacity of real human perception, it enters the realm of 'magic'. You will hear all sorts of claims about this magic, using all sorts of wonderful language.
Save your money on the 'magic' and buy or, preferably, build a good set of speakers. If you opt for active speakers, which many of the 'old hands' have, you will sell the old amp for a good price and live happily ever after, devoid of the silliness of the amp debate, but with a clarity of sound most people will able to readily discern.
[Shakes foot (right, of course) out of stirrup, and dismounts high horse.]
Once the level and type of distortion disappears below the threshold of the capacity of real human perception, it enters the realm of 'magic'. You will hear all sorts of claims about this magic, using all sorts of wonderful language.
Save your money on the 'magic' and buy or, preferably, build a good set of speakers. If you opt for active speakers, which many of the 'old hands' have, you will sell the old amp for a good price and live happily ever after, devoid of the silliness of the amp debate, but with a clarity of sound most people will able to readily discern.
[Shakes foot (right, of course) out of stirrup, and dismounts high horse.]
Well guys, I still am INTO stereo... so I don't mind hearing a few opinions. On other forums, I read that the solid state stuff, in general, is now way more technically advanced than it was back in say, the 80s.
I once had a Yamaha Natural Sound amp and it was super clean but sounded so "small." The replacement NAD sounded clean and "bigger."
IMO there's got to be more going on that mere distortion levels and power rating.
I'm generally happy with my speakers. They're old but change radically depending on what amp is driving them.
Sometimes I just put my tablet thru the NAD. It has Dolby Atmos which adds all sorts of fun to the mix...
I realize it's a ballpark question. Don't mind ballpark replies...
I once had a Yamaha Natural Sound amp and it was super clean but sounded so "small." The replacement NAD sounded clean and "bigger."
IMO there's got to be more going on that mere distortion levels and power rating.
I'm generally happy with my speakers. They're old but change radically depending on what amp is driving them.
Sometimes I just put my tablet thru the NAD. It has Dolby Atmos which adds all sorts of fun to the mix...
I realize it's a ballpark question. Don't mind ballpark replies...
Yes, I scour Kijiji but am afraid that since I don't know much technically, I might get burnt.
I guess I assumed that a PA amp would not have the same frequency range or balance thru the range.
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Yes, if your old amp is just "old" as in >20 years and doing nothing, it likely needs an overhaul of the electrolytic caps. That's not cheap when the caps are bought in small qty. so its wise to invest in good ones if you're going to spend much at all. If the amp was never anything special, it might be better to move it along to the next guy who may be just bursting to tinker with something.
However, if you are only interested in retail solutions, take an opportunity to compare the sound quality that you like in amplifiers before buying. Surely you can find a dealer within driving distance who not only stocks stereo gear but knows something about it and is prepared to listen to your requirements.
I've built a lot of DIY but I also buy the occasional used or even new amp, if I like it a lot by listening to other examples with known speaker types and music. Random speaker choices in a showroom will be pointless as firm bass for example, just won't be available from bookshelf/stand-mounted speakers at any price through any amp. Stereo imaging may be difficult to perceive too - ask for help so you can hear the best the products can do.The ones you really like though, may also be a tad pricey
However, if you are only interested in retail solutions, take an opportunity to compare the sound quality that you like in amplifiers before buying. Surely you can find a dealer within driving distance who not only stocks stereo gear but knows something about it and is prepared to listen to your requirements.
I've built a lot of DIY but I also buy the occasional used or even new amp, if I like it a lot by listening to other examples with known speaker types and music. Random speaker choices in a showroom will be pointless as firm bass for example, just won't be available from bookshelf/stand-mounted speakers at any price through any amp. Stereo imaging may be difficult to perceive too - ask for help so you can hear the best the products can do.The ones you really like though, may also be a tad pricey
Hi Msea,
I have a nice NAD3155, first owner in the 80's that I use mostly every day when I am in my lab. It sounds great and shows no problem at all. In my lab, I have built several SymAsym (with doubled output transistors). I don't hear much difference between them both. What change a lot is the acoustical properties in the room where your speakers are located. This is definitely what you should enhance : it defines the goodness of your amplification as it is sound that you hear. Bass frequencies are difficult to be good in a small place or in a room badly done. I did change my home, and did not change my other principal installation (Rotel power amp, speakers, and CD player) : there has been a great difference with the bass frequencies I could hear and appreciate. In my new house, I have much more bass quality, and it goes lower in frequency ... It is what I hear, I don't do measures.
All power amps nowaday can and will be near electronically perfect. Acoustic is the problem where you are located that pones some restriction on the quality you really get.
It is all there IMHO.
Have a nice day and continue to enjoy your nice NAD3155.
Best regards
rephil
I have a nice NAD3155, first owner in the 80's that I use mostly every day when I am in my lab. It sounds great and shows no problem at all. In my lab, I have built several SymAsym (with doubled output transistors). I don't hear much difference between them both. What change a lot is the acoustical properties in the room where your speakers are located. This is definitely what you should enhance : it defines the goodness of your amplification as it is sound that you hear. Bass frequencies are difficult to be good in a small place or in a room badly done. I did change my home, and did not change my other principal installation (Rotel power amp, speakers, and CD player) : there has been a great difference with the bass frequencies I could hear and appreciate. In my new house, I have much more bass quality, and it goes lower in frequency ... It is what I hear, I don't do measures.
All power amps nowaday can and will be near electronically perfect. Acoustic is the problem where you are located that pones some restriction on the quality you really get.
It is all there IMHO.
Have a nice day and continue to enjoy your nice NAD3155.
Best regards
rephil
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I think modern amps will have the edge in most cases and often more convenient if they come with additional capabilities for the digital world. Older amps need to be serviced but they can be a great source of interest for many and some of them are outright gems plus they are usually much easier to upgrade. I did an upgrade to an old Sansui tuner which produced superb results, mostly by swapping in new parts, modifying the FM treble filter and re-configuring the power supply (I added a Class A headphone amp too). New amps can also be upgraded if they are discrete. I upgraded my Pioneer HT receiver and the improvement in sound was not subtle. I have an old Marantz integrated tuner-amp-phono to play with, I bought it because I love the retro look but the electronics can surely be improved on (a future project). If I were buying new today at the bulk end of the price range I'd go and look at the latest Pioneer amp and then upgrade it to my TGM6 circuit, or instead get one of the new Yamaha amps as I do like their appearance and they also have a discrete power amp one could play with.
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I have seen both sides of the fence on this one. Really though there is not a single answer for this. I just recently recapped an old '79 Sony integrated that I was very impressed with. Very nice sound, a little euphonic but still solid. I also purchased for a friend the new Yamaha integrated around 100W/channel and it sounds great paired with a set of MMG's. This is all referenced to my system which is Aikido tube pre and Pass a40 power amp. You have to research what you are interested in.
Hi Msea. Your nad is at least 30 year old and could easily, but not necesarily have lost bass-respons because of some aged components. Both 3155 and 380i were well regarded in their pricerange.
What jumps in my eyes is that you say that you have 4 speakers. If you are playing on the 2 sets at the same time and in the same room, its far from optimal for getting good sound.
Also that would tell me that you have not been quite happy with either set on their own.
Regarding the speakers - they are by far the most important part of the soundquality. If they are the same age as your amp, their sound could likely have degraded from vorn out caps in their crossover filter. Many have had great results from restoring and often upgrading filters with new and better filters.
Which speakers do you own? If they really are as old as your amplifier- they have now been upgraded to "Vintage" In your case maybe even "vintage from original owner" If they werent too cheap from new, they might fetch a good price on the used marked.
Your Nad 3155 has a pre out and main in loop that allows you to insert an active crossover and use its own power stage for midrange and or treble. Then you only need an aditional poweramp(find inspiration or ask in this forum about which) ,to drive the bass woofers. This way you can by-pass the old x,-overs(xo) in you speakers and thus not need to renovate them.
Going active this way or another could be a dramatic jump in sound quality.
To find out the question in your headline just bring your amp to a desent shop or a friend with a newer good stereoamp and compare. Sorry for my english , and happy journey to newfound musical happiness! Best regards Allan
What jumps in my eyes is that you say that you have 4 speakers. If you are playing on the 2 sets at the same time and in the same room, its far from optimal for getting good sound.
Also that would tell me that you have not been quite happy with either set on their own.
Regarding the speakers - they are by far the most important part of the soundquality. If they are the same age as your amp, their sound could likely have degraded from vorn out caps in their crossover filter. Many have had great results from restoring and often upgrading filters with new and better filters.
Which speakers do you own? If they really are as old as your amplifier- they have now been upgraded to "Vintage" In your case maybe even "vintage from original owner" If they werent too cheap from new, they might fetch a good price on the used marked.
Your Nad 3155 has a pre out and main in loop that allows you to insert an active crossover and use its own power stage for midrange and or treble. Then you only need an aditional poweramp(find inspiration or ask in this forum about which) ,to drive the bass woofers. This way you can by-pass the old x,-overs(xo) in you speakers and thus not need to renovate them.
Going active this way or another could be a dramatic jump in sound quality.
To find out the question in your headline just bring your amp to a desent shop or a friend with a newer good stereoamp and compare. Sorry for my english , and happy journey to newfound musical happiness! Best regards Allan
Maybe that is why the bass seems uneven these days. Yes, we've owned a lot of different equip. over the years. Some was good others not so good! I recently saw a vintage Marantz on sale for about $1500 Canadian! What a joke. We had one of those and it was never very good, and only cost about $200.
Right, I had a store like this in my youth. And they were great. These days, however, I feel that any specialty stores - which are a dying breed in Canada - might just be tooooo small... Some guy or gal only carrying what he or she likes. So the box stores are good in that you get two weeks to try and a hassle-free return if you don't like. The hassle is in reboxing it all...
Always nice to find another 3155 owner! SymAsym looks interesting but probably way beyond my humble abilities. (I just recently burnt my fingers trying to soldier a laptop antenna! )
p.s. sorry for not multi-quoting. Will do so in future replies. I bookmarked this page and didn't see the newer material until just now. I am also fasting today for medical reasons... and it is having an FX on my concentration!
Yes, Kijiji just gets ridiculous for certain brands like Marantz, Sansui, and Technics TTs. Over here there are people trying to make money off of turning them over, so deals are scooped up immediately.
Nothing wrong with a PA amp. They can be pricier, even used, but are rock solid, higher power so you never overload, and not subject to audiophile vintage hysteria pricing. You need to deal with their connectors, though.
Nothing wrong with a PA amp. They can be pricier, even used, but are rock solid, higher power so you never overload, and not subject to audiophile vintage hysteria pricing. You need to deal with their connectors, though.
Build quality in much of the older gear - to make gear to those same standards (as say my Sansui AU-999) today would cost thousands.
Plus that older gear is a lot more user-serviceable than much new gear.
The older gear was also generally built at a time before the mentality of planned obsolescence.
Plus that older gear is a lot more user-serviceable than much new gear.
The older gear was also generally built at a time before the mentality of planned obsolescence.
Yes I was a student for a long time and have lived in many different types of places. Except for two years overseas, I took my system with me. So I've heard it in all sorts of rooms, walls and over hard and soft floors! You are right. A good room is key. I find that drawing or not drawing the curtains can also have a big effect of overall brightness. I am an amateur musician and mix my own stuff. So my ear is pretty good.
Well, that is what some people say about modern amps. Btw, I didn't mean to diss your Marantz in my other post. It was okay for us at the time but I found a Yamaha amp with more wattage served my young teenage needs better. Blasting!
Euphonic meaning not crisp?
You are right, I was not happy with the larger pair alone (soft midrange), so I got a smaller pair with very little bass but amazing midrange. It's a crazy and cheap mix but it works for me! I also have two additional bookshelves in my room. I plan to mix it up a bit, try different combinations. I am always changing my sound systems around. I listen from different types of sources each day. Yamaha outdoor speakers with old computer subwoofer actually sounds better than my stereo for certain types of streamed music... etc. etc. So rather than focus on getting one perfect system... which I think is probably impossible, I just keep changing things around to keep it fresh.
I have a Technics tt maybe I should list it for ten thousand dollars! Oh, one channel isn't working. 5000 dollars.
Yes, I actually ran it for a short white with the vents covered. Very stupid but there was an excuse. So maybe I damaged it. Hope not. Still sounds okay.
Yes people used to take pride in their work. Now they take pride in becoming billionaires.
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