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Old 21st November 2017, 07:42 AM   #381
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Ah, I see what you mean.... the electrical response. Yeah, that looks like a bug. As a workaround for now, you could set the drivers's response temporarily to a flat line (same dB all freqs, like go to select and FRD file but then Cancel rather than Open) and mute any other drivers. Won't directly show you voltage loss, but you can scale it to match the visible Filter Response graph.

Will put that on the "to fix" list for if I get to that.
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Old 21st November 2017, 07:51 AM   #382
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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Hi Pano guess you know what you doing in its the electrical response you trying to export there but if its important and you can live without its belonging phase then another alternative is take snapshot to picture-file "Large" and use FPGraphTracer to trace frd-file.

Link: FPGraphTracer : fprawn labs

Last edited by BYRTT; 21st November 2017 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 21st November 2017, 08:05 AM   #383
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Thanks Bili

Thanks Byrtt - I've been using SPLTrace for years, but that looks much easier. Will give it a try.
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:42 PM   #384
joetekubi is offline joetekubi  United States
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Bill,

I guess this is the right spot for Xsim feedback.

I just started using it after years with Jeff's PCD.
I run Ubuntu, and it got to be a chore to spin up a VirtualBox session just to run some sims. Xsim runs pretty great on Linux using "PlayOnLinux".

No major problems with the prog.
Love the way you can center the FR scale, and love the way you can easily change the unit dB values per divisor if you want to drill in (or out).

It's pretty awesome to be able to create arbitrary crossover topologies.

Couple of nits.
It would be nice to be able to scale an arbitrary FRD file up and down (dB level) -
either during import or just during a "Tune".
My prints of the crossover window work fine, but include a grey(ish) background and the grid dots. I would like to have a blank background and heavier lines for the crossover.
As it is, I currently screencap that window and save it in my project documentation folder.

Driver/Baffle basic Geometry would be nice. Just the basics - X/Y/Z offsets of the drivers.

Thanks for a very "cool" and useful program!
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Old 28th November 2017, 07:58 PM   #385
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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I am now starting to use Xsim and would like to use the parameters for some special spkrs I know well.... how can I build/edit the FRD files ?
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Old 29th November 2017, 05:20 AM   #386
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
I am now starting to use Xsim and would like to use the parameters for some special spkrs I know well.... how can I build/edit the FRD files ?
Pretty much have to measure them, unless you can find ZMA or FRD files for them. Many of the Dayton drivers at Parts Express provide such files (with delays set as if they were all on the same flat baffle). But for most drivers you will need to get some measurement gear.
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Old 29th November 2017, 05:39 AM   #387
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joetekubi View Post

It would be nice to be able to scale an arbitrary FRD file up and down (dB level) -
either during import or just during a "Tune".
That's not supported now, but you could instead shift the dB level of the simulated response (for comparing to the FRD file curve display) by simply Tuning the power level on the Power Amp symbol!

Quote:
My prints of the crossover window work fine, but include a grey(ish) background and the grid dots. I would like to have a blank background and heavier lines for the crossover.
How are you printing? Grid dots shouldn't be there (I don't see them when I print here)?

Maybe try this: File -> Snapshot -> To Picture File -> As Shown, then save as type .png

Open the png file in PaintBrush (or other graphics app) and print from there. Should be crisp and clear, no dots or smearing. (you could also save as a .pdf file, to be even more clear, but then you have to load Adobe to print).

or: File -> Snapshot -> To Windows Clipboard -> As vector graphic; and then paste it into your graphics app (such as Clipboard)
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Old 29th November 2017, 06:49 PM   #388
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Pretty much have to measure them, unless you can find ZMA or FRD files for them. Many of the Dayton drivers at Parts Express provide such files (with delays set as if they were all on the same flat baffle). But for most drivers you will need to get some measurement gear.
Can I do it with ARTA ?
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Old 29th November 2017, 06:58 PM   #389
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Probably (I'm not familiar with ARTA, but I think that's one of its purposes). Just make sure to include phase information and relative delay as well. Here is a short writeup I did (coincidentally just yesterday) outlining how this would be done with a 3-way:
____
For a three-way, measure the following (keeping the microphone position, the baffle position, and the levels the same for all measurements -- WITH phase response included):
**Tweeter response
**Tweeter + Midrange response (both together, no crossover)
**Midrange response
**Midrange + Woofer response (both together)
**Woofer response

Then, make an XSim design model with nothing but three drivers connected in parallel together to the power amp. "Tune" the top one to have the Tweeter's FRD file; the middle one to have the Midrange's FRD file; and the bottom one to have the Woofer's FRD file. (You don't need to bother with impedance files at this point until you do actual crossover designing)
Click the image to open in full size.

Mute out the woofer to start. You should see in the Frequency Response plot the simulated effect of the tweeter and midrange both playing together, which is the situation of the 2nd measurement you made above. In that Frequency Response plot, use its "Curves" menu to "Get File" and load the actual measured combined "Tweeter + Midrange" response. The idea is to compare this to simulated. "Tune" the midrange driver's "Mod delay" until the simulated response very closely resembles the measured combined response.

Next, unmute the Woofer and mute the Tweeter. Change the "Get File" to the combined "Midrange + Woofer" response FRD file. Tune the WOOFER's "Mod delay" value till the simulated closely matches that curve. Don't touch the midrange's or tweeter's "Mod delay" values, since you previously aligned them together. Now you have all the response files loaded to the proper drivers, with the actual relative delays established between them all. You can load your measured impedance files now, detach the drivers in the model from each other, and begin designing/simulating your crossover. The simulated results you get should essentially EXACTLY agree with what you will get when you build the actual designed crossover.
____

If your ARTA setup measures absolute phase (is "time locked" and uses a soundcard that can do that right), and can produce FRD file format, you could just measure to make files and go. The 'combined' measurements and delay adjustments are when the time isn't locked, as with Omnimic (Omnimic is designed to not need any cables between the measuring system and what is being measured).
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Old 29th November 2017, 07:18 PM   #390
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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Thanks exelent writeup there bwaslo, in it can be very usefully information for many users you could link it into post 1.
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