Hello all, I have an IB in my ceiling and would like to have a go at doing something with my room acoustics. I'm using floor standers as my mains, which I hope to replace when the CreditCrunch, eases off.
When one gets the urge to do a bit of diyAudio, one has no pennies, one needs to get a fix any way one can.
Because my system, is also Home Theatre( 2 channels only) as in my TV sits between my speakers, is situated in the corner of my lounge, (WAF), my speakers are diagonal on that corner. I have a sofa opposite and one on a side wall, with a open fire opposite that, and various other objects around the room.
With her indoors gone to work, I can play. Is there some measurements ie ratios I can use to posistion my main loudspeakers?
With a tape measure, can one guesstimate problem frequencies? I'd like to get a visual idea on whats happening inside my room. I'd expect to have to factor in windows doors and walls, as well as rug, radiator hi fi stand, PC stand and chair. When my mains used to fire down the side walls with the tv in the middle, my system sounded nice. But because I have a radiator there, which I cant block with a TV, I have to use the corner option. Soundstage is suffering bad, what can I do?
Mike
When one gets the urge to do a bit of diyAudio, one has no pennies, one needs to get a fix any way one can.
Because my system, is also Home Theatre( 2 channels only) as in my TV sits between my speakers, is situated in the corner of my lounge, (WAF), my speakers are diagonal on that corner. I have a sofa opposite and one on a side wall, with a open fire opposite that, and various other objects around the room.
With her indoors gone to work, I can play. Is there some measurements ie ratios I can use to posistion my main loudspeakers?
With a tape measure, can one guesstimate problem frequencies? I'd like to get a visual idea on whats happening inside my room. I'd expect to have to factor in windows doors and walls, as well as rug, radiator hi fi stand, PC stand and chair. When my mains used to fire down the side walls with the tv in the middle, my system sounded nice. But because I have a radiator there, which I cant block with a TV, I have to use the corner option. Soundstage is suffering bad, what can I do?
Mike
Have you already done a preliminary evaluation with something like:
http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm
This could help identify the potential modes and problems freqs
http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm
This could help identify the potential modes and problems freqs
I'm no pro,But..
I would think that the first thing to do is to measure the room.
Find out the dimensions,and see what how they translate into wavelengths. Then you can see what the problem frequencies might be,and know what to expect,as far as standing waves go.
(For instance,in this room,there is a peak around 70hz,due to the width of the room.)
Then you can maybe try some room treatments,and other 'simpler' tricks first.
Just a thought.That's probably where I'd start.
I would think that the first thing to do is to measure the room.
Find out the dimensions,and see what how they translate into wavelengths. Then you can see what the problem frequencies might be,and know what to expect,as far as standing waves go.
(For instance,in this room,there is a peak around 70hz,due to the width of the room.)
Then you can maybe try some room treatments,and other 'simpler' tricks first.
Just a thought.That's probably where I'd start.
I posted here because.....
....my sub is none movable and everything else must fit in with this. I wish I could take a 3d picture. Basic things like, toe the speakers in, 2 to 3 meters apart, tweaters at ear height. Okay, my IB woofer fires down my bedroom wall and the rear wave exits into the lounge at a right angle because of the manifold.
Its Sunday again, so I don't mind a gentle answer. I don't need an in depth look at how brick density effects some room node... blah blah.
Mike
....my sub is none movable and everything else must fit in with this. I wish I could take a 3d picture. Basic things like, toe the speakers in, 2 to 3 meters apart, tweaters at ear height. Okay, my IB woofer fires down my bedroom wall and the rear wave exits into the lounge at a right angle because of the manifold.
Its Sunday again, so I don't mind a gentle answer. I don't need an in depth look at how brick density effects some room node... blah blah.
Mike
Since there isn't a universal definition of soundstage, how can there be a universal solution...
If I had to make recommendations for a room ( blind and mute )...
I divide the primary dimensions ( L,W,D ), and avoid placement at even divisors.
With a overly lively room, or a room of bad proportions, I work to minimize 1st reflection and bring the speakers closer in, to decouple and raise the ratio of direct sound to reflected sound.
If I had to make recommendations for a room ( blind and mute )...
I divide the primary dimensions ( L,W,D ), and avoid placement at even divisors.
With a overly lively room, or a room of bad proportions, I work to minimize 1st reflection and bring the speakers closer in, to decouple and raise the ratio of direct sound to reflected sound.
room calc
Ouch
Sorry Moderators, I Zipped em, but they were too big. even one at a time
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Ouch
Sorry Moderators, I Zipped em, but they were too big. even one at a time
The current position is centered around the TV but offset with the boundaries of the room.
IMO: It would be impossible to get acceptable soundstaging if one of the cabs is in essence corner loaded near 3 boundaries and the other is loaded near 2 boundaries.
If at all possible I would slide the pair over to the right and position with a more equal spacing, and experiment from there.
I would recommend experimenting with hanging heavy drapes, quilts or acoustic panels decorated with a SAF in mind to help tame reflections
IMO: It would be impossible to get acceptable soundstaging if one of the cabs is in essence corner loaded near 3 boundaries and the other is loaded near 2 boundaries.
If at all possible I would slide the pair over to the right and position with a more equal spacing, and experiment from there.
I would recommend experimenting with hanging heavy drapes, quilts or acoustic panels decorated with a SAF in mind to help tame reflections
Hello HK26147
Are you suggesting going back to normal posistioning? That would put th IB to the left channel. would this be bad?
Damn, I'd have to shift the TV
I've cut into the dado rail.
Mike
Are you suggesting going back to normal posistioning? That would put th IB to the left channel. would this be bad?
Damn, I'd have to shift the TV
I've cut into the dado rail.An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Mike
Attachments
Your setup ( 1st pic ) is Emily-centric...
From her perspective she probably has the best imaging and soundstage as her ears are close to the apex of a 1 meter equilateral triangle, and hear the direct waves much louder than the reflections.
The rest of the audience is a different situation. It is the uneven constructive and destructive interference from reflection that will smear imaging. I doubt you would be willing or able to change this room to an anechoic chamber.
FWIW, I simply have not been able to get severely off-sided placement to work that well.
This Ripple Tank Simulation
http://www.falstad.com/ripple/
Demonstrates better
If you set it to 2 sources and 1 frequency and add borders you can approximate wave propagation in a room.
Move the sources to simulate the current location, and observe the non symmetrical pattern disturbances as each source is not at the same distance from reflective surfaces as it's companion.
The left speaker has different reflective paths than the right one.
If both speaker can't be moved right, my alternative would be to keep the right speaker approx where it is and slide the left corner speaker an equal distance down the left wall ( ie corner-centric ).
Try these alternatives in the ripple simulations and you see better pattern symmetry.
With an active crossover @ 80hz or below in small room with it's inevitable cabin gain, I have not found exact sub placement to be hypercritical.
From her perspective she probably has the best imaging and soundstage as her ears are close to the apex of a 1 meter equilateral triangle, and hear the direct waves much louder than the reflections.
The rest of the audience is a different situation. It is the uneven constructive and destructive interference from reflection that will smear imaging. I doubt you would be willing or able to change this room to an anechoic chamber.
FWIW, I simply have not been able to get severely off-sided placement to work that well.
This Ripple Tank Simulation
http://www.falstad.com/ripple/
Demonstrates better
If you set it to 2 sources and 1 frequency and add borders you can approximate wave propagation in a room.
Move the sources to simulate the current location, and observe the non symmetrical pattern disturbances as each source is not at the same distance from reflective surfaces as it's companion.
The left speaker has different reflective paths than the right one.
If both speaker can't be moved right, my alternative would be to keep the right speaker approx where it is and slide the left corner speaker an equal distance down the left wall ( ie corner-centric ).
Try these alternatives in the ripple simulations and you see better pattern symmetry.
With an active crossover @ 80hz or below in small room with it's inevitable cabin gain, I have not found exact sub placement to be hypercritical.
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