I love my Spectra22. I use them in a smallish 12 foot by 16 foot room. My main complaints are: Lack of punch on some (rock) music, lack of bass (punch), and a failure to "pressurize" the room or achieve high volume levels.
I have the opportunity to purchase a pair of Spectra33 speakers. They would be a tight fit in my room but I could make it work (the edges of the outside frames would be within an inch of the sidewalls).
Would this change resolve my complaints? Do the 33s have more bass and punch? Or would it just be more of the same?
The alternative is building a pair of dipole subwoofer and running them from about 40hertz down on top of the full range Spectra22. This would be fairly costly and time consuming. I do not want the signal to the Spectras going through a crossover.
I have the opportunity to purchase a pair of Spectra33 speakers. They would be a tight fit in my room but I could make it work (the edges of the outside frames would be within an inch of the sidewalls).
Would this change resolve my complaints? Do the 33s have more bass and punch? Or would it just be more of the same?
The alternative is building a pair of dipole subwoofer and running them from about 40hertz down on top of the full range Spectra22. This would be fairly costly and time consuming. I do not want the signal to the Spectras going through a crossover.
The Spectra 33 (or 3300) does have more bass extension and dynamic slam compared to the Spectra 22 (or 2200). The two speakers use the same panel area for highs and mids, but the 3-panel system uses its third panel for bass only, meaning that the speaker has 50% more radiating area for bass.
Will this solve your complaint? It'll make it better for sure, but it may not get you to where you want to be. Many people find the addition of a subwoofer to be beneficial. I have Spectra 4400's, and even though they have very nice bass response, I augment the system with a single, fairly inexpensive 10" powered Dayton subwoofer. The subwoofer's crossover is set to 80 Hz, at a fairly low volume level. I usually run the Spectras full-range, although I do have the option of inserting a capacitor (via a switch box) in series with each channel of the main amp, which rolls off the main speakers at -6 dB/octave. Now I can rattle the picture frames on the walls without rattling the diaphragms of the ESL's.
Will this solve your complaint? It'll make it better for sure, but it may not get you to where you want to be. Many people find the addition of a subwoofer to be beneficial. I have Spectra 4400's, and even though they have very nice bass response, I augment the system with a single, fairly inexpensive 10" powered Dayton subwoofer. The subwoofer's crossover is set to 80 Hz, at a fairly low volume level. I usually run the Spectras full-range, although I do have the option of inserting a capacitor (via a switch box) in series with each channel of the main amp, which rolls off the main speakers at -6 dB/octave. Now I can rattle the picture frames on the walls without rattling the diaphragms of the ESL's.
Thank you for your informative post Andy!
Still seriously considering picking up the 33s--you can never have to many Acoustats and they are getting rarer these days.
I could always use the 33s as my subwoofers (with a low pass filter from my second set of preamp outputs and a spare Quad 606 amp I have laying around) and run the 22s full-range. I believe E-Stat had this setup at one time. 5 panels per side (3 for bass only) should juice up the bass and slam! Don't know how I would be able to fit it all in my room though.
Still seriously considering picking up the 33s--you can never have to many Acoustats and they are getting rarer these days.
I could always use the 33s as my subwoofers (with a low pass filter from my second set of preamp outputs and a spare Quad 606 amp I have laying around) and run the 22s full-range. I believe E-Stat had this setup at one time. 5 panels per side (3 for bass only) should juice up the bass and slam! Don't know how I would be able to fit it all in my room though.
Resurrecting this thread again. I am considering a pair of Rel T/7i subwoofers (8 inch driver) for my Acoustat Spectra 22. The interface allows you (With the flick of a switch) to run the speakers full range, or to cut the response to the panels below 100hz and run an output to a sub, which I assume would have to have its low pass crossover set at around 100hz. This speaker was often sold with a single matching sub back in the day. The Rel subs allow (and favour) the use of a high level hookup which I would be using from the interfaces sub out terminals. The other alternative of course is running the speakers full range and “blending” the subwoofers in with a lower crossover frequency, say 50 or 60 hz.
The obvious advantage of the first approach is that the panels would no longer have to reproduce low bass. And this can be done without an external crossover and extra cabling. I have listened to the panels with the switch set for 100hz, and the mid and hi frequencies do sound clearer and crisp. But the music looses its foundation and sounds very thin.
But will the subs stand out as separate sound sources In this setup? I will definitely be using a stereo pair to start. I’m hoping this setup would add not only bass, but punch and headroom, as the main speakers would no longer be working as hard and the system would now be biamped.
If successful, I may eventually go all out and add 2 more Rels and stack two on each side, one of each firing forward and one backwards for dipole bass?
Anyone have a Spectra 22 with the matching sub, or try integrating modern subs with these speakers using the 100hz cutoff? I wish it was lower, like 70hz but it is what it is. Acoustat made it this way for a reason, so it must work somewhat at least.
Any opinions are appreciated.
The obvious advantage of the first approach is that the panels would no longer have to reproduce low bass. And this can be done without an external crossover and extra cabling. I have listened to the panels with the switch set for 100hz, and the mid and hi frequencies do sound clearer and crisp. But the music looses its foundation and sounds very thin.
But will the subs stand out as separate sound sources In this setup? I will definitely be using a stereo pair to start. I’m hoping this setup would add not only bass, but punch and headroom, as the main speakers would no longer be working as hard and the system would now be biamped.
If successful, I may eventually go all out and add 2 more Rels and stack two on each side, one of each firing forward and one backwards for dipole bass?
Anyone have a Spectra 22 with the matching sub, or try integrating modern subs with these speakers using the 100hz cutoff? I wish it was lower, like 70hz but it is what it is. Acoustat made it this way for a reason, so it must work somewhat at least.
Any opinions are appreciated.
A couple thoughts:
If you can find one you like, I'd suggest going for a subwoofer that has an auto-EQ feature. It gives more placement flexibility and greatly improves the smoothness of in-room low-frequency response.
Unfortunately, stacking subs and changing firing direction won't give you dipole subwoofers. With them in-phase they'd be bipole, but bass is omnidirectional at these frequencies and driver sizes anyway, so facing one woofer to the rear won't make an appreciable difference. For dipole output, the rear woofer has to be out of phase, but that also causes cancellation that must be corrected. Typical subwoofers aren't up to the challenges this configuration creates. Dipole subs typically use multiple high-excursion drivers. They also lose some of the visceral feel most people are used to.
If you can find one you like, I'd suggest going for a subwoofer that has an auto-EQ feature. It gives more placement flexibility and greatly improves the smoothness of in-room low-frequency response.
Unfortunately, stacking subs and changing firing direction won't give you dipole subwoofers. With them in-phase they'd be bipole, but bass is omnidirectional at these frequencies and driver sizes anyway, so facing one woofer to the rear won't make an appreciable difference. For dipole output, the rear woofer has to be out of phase, but that also causes cancellation that must be corrected. Typical subwoofers aren't up to the challenges this configuration creates. Dipole subs typically use multiple high-excursion drivers. They also lose some of the visceral feel most people are used to.
Thanks for the reply.
I am not very knowledgeable regarding subwoofers, so appreciate your thoughts. I will probably just stick with a stereo pair of subs firing forward if I do it, although I do believe phase can be altered on the Rel subs.
I am finding it difficult to find subs with high level inputs which I would need to use with the Spectra 22. That’s what attracted me to Rel. They are also supposed to be “fast subs”. Do you know of any subs with an EQ feature with high level inputs? How much would a pair of them run? I can get a pair of the Rels for about $2.5k Canadian, not sure if I am willing to spend much more on this experiment.
The main concern is the integration of the Electrostatic panels and cone woofers, given the 100hz crossover. However, this is still lower than any of Martin Logan’s hybrids, so it can be done.
I am not very knowledgeable regarding subwoofers, so appreciate your thoughts. I will probably just stick with a stereo pair of subs firing forward if I do it, although I do believe phase can be altered on the Rel subs.
I am finding it difficult to find subs with high level inputs which I would need to use with the Spectra 22. That’s what attracted me to Rel. They are also supposed to be “fast subs”. Do you know of any subs with an EQ feature with high level inputs? How much would a pair of them run? I can get a pair of the Rels for about $2.5k Canadian, not sure if I am willing to spend much more on this experiment.
The main concern is the integration of the Electrostatic panels and cone woofers, given the 100hz crossover. However, this is still lower than any of Martin Logan’s hybrids, so it can be done.
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I don't think you need to use the high level output from the Spectra 22. If you were using a passive subwoofer, that connection would be more appropriate.
As long as moving the toggle switch to "above 100 Hz" does what you want on the Spectra 22's, the controls/crossover on the powered subwoofer should do the rest whether you use high or low level inputs.
The MartinLogan 800X subwoofer is in your price range (in the US, anyway). It includes Anthem Room Correction, but requires an app to access it (getting more common with various hardware these days). It uses a sealed 10 inch woofer, so I would expect it to have good transient abilities. It's available multiple places, and Crutchfield has a 60-day return policy, so even if you need to ship it, you'd have time to experiment and return if you don't like it. I'd start with one sub to get a feel for it, then add the other later if you like it.
The following Stereophile review uses them with Quad ESL-989's and found the integration good.
MartinLogan Dynamo 800X powered subwoofer | Stereophile.com
As long as moving the toggle switch to "above 100 Hz" does what you want on the Spectra 22's, the controls/crossover on the powered subwoofer should do the rest whether you use high or low level inputs.
The MartinLogan 800X subwoofer is in your price range (in the US, anyway). It includes Anthem Room Correction, but requires an app to access it (getting more common with various hardware these days). It uses a sealed 10 inch woofer, so I would expect it to have good transient abilities. It's available multiple places, and Crutchfield has a 60-day return policy, so even if you need to ship it, you'd have time to experiment and return if you don't like it. I'd start with one sub to get a feel for it, then add the other later if you like it.
The following Stereophile review uses them with Quad ESL-989's and found the integration good.
MartinLogan Dynamo 800X powered subwoofer | Stereophile.com
See attached for the color codes of how to wire any Spectra model.
I no longer have the frame and base drawings. However, if you have the requisite skills to build a new frame and base, copying the Spectra 22 frame, and adding one more section for the third panel should be fairly straightforward. Ditto for the base.
I no longer have the frame and base drawings. However, if you have the requisite skills to build a new frame and base, copying the Spectra 22 frame, and adding one more section for the third panel should be fairly straightforward. Ditto for the base.
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Thanks for your concern. I am now an Acoustat addict of which I hold the following pairs: 4400, 2 pairs of 2 + 2, 22, 1100, 11. Listening with Hafler 500 and 600 amps and, when the quality of the recording assists me, mentally I don't tell myself which are great speakers, but I think live music is superior. Change of paradigm .....
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