Tube Headphone amp suggestions for audiophile friend!
Hello folks, I just got the email about the Sony VFET Amplifier and it rejuvenated in me this idea that I had before but I never reached out to get the info needed to help me make the decision and today I decided to do it. I appreciate your time and hope you can help me.
I have an audiophile friend. I thought it would be a cool gift for me to buy and build an amp camp amp and give it to him. I do not know though, if it would be "good enough" for him. It appears to me looking at the stats that it could be and I have faith in you and the people that like this amp. I just am old enough and smart enough to know what I don't know and try to get and use the wisdom of others when I can.
He has these Focal Stellia headphones (FOCAL - STELLIA - Acoustic sound purity, everywhere). Here are the specs they give in the docment:
He has others but these are his best ones, I believe. He even gave me his old Sennheiser HD 600s a while back (a few upgrades before he got these Stellia cans). Last I inquired (about a year ago when I thought of doing this) he used this SMSL SP200 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZJ6S1DX) headphone amp with them.
Here are some stats from that webpage:
I realize he may not like the sound better and that these things are somewhat opinion and subjective but I just would like to make as sure as I can be that this amplifier at least would seem to be some sort of improvement over that one. It looks to me like it would be better power wise. I just don't have a good enough of a feeling to dive in. He's a logical person and he knows enough to give it time and let his ears and brain adjust and what not. I just want to feel more confident that this would be better at least in numbers and on paper that it would be a really good chance it would be worth doing and he wouldn't just appreciate it, (he would appreciate the gesture) but would actually love the product. If there is some other information you can think of that I could try to gather that would somehow help, I could do that too. I am hoping you can just look at it and say this amp would be a significant improvement and my hardest decision will be if he would like a silver or black face (I would prefer black so that's what he's getting - haha).
Thanks again for reading this and the time it would have taken you. Hopefully he doesn't find this thread and spoil the surprise.
Edit:
From the back and forth of this thread my purpose has shifted to wanting to find a tube pre-amp to make for my friend to test out against his Topping A90.
Hello folks, I just got the email about the Sony VFET Amplifier and it rejuvenated in me this idea that I had before but I never reached out to get the info needed to help me make the decision and today I decided to do it. I appreciate your time and hope you can help me.
I have an audiophile friend. I thought it would be a cool gift for me to buy and build an amp camp amp and give it to him. I do not know though, if it would be "good enough" for him. It appears to me looking at the stats that it could be and I have faith in you and the people that like this amp. I just am old enough and smart enough to know what I don't know and try to get and use the wisdom of others when I can.
He has these Focal Stellia headphones (FOCAL - STELLIA - Acoustic sound purity, everywhere). Here are the specs they give in the docment:
He has others but these are his best ones, I believe. He even gave me his old Sennheiser HD 600s a while back (a few upgrades before he got these Stellia cans). Last I inquired (about a year ago when I thought of doing this) he used this SMSL SP200 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZJ6S1DX) headphone amp with them.
Here are some stats from that webpage:
Code:
Description:
The SMSL SP200 THX Headphone Amp is the latest product in the SMSL lineup with the top of the line audiophile high power grade THX AAA-888 technology. This technology allows for the highest fidelity with extreme output power and ultra-low crosstalk.
The front panel has XLR and quarter inch jack outputs, options for switching between different inputs, and choosing high or low gain. A detailed review for the SP200 and its performance is provided by Amir on Audio Science Review.
Features:
THX AAA-888 Technology
Ultra-Compact design - great for desktop
Toggle switch for operation, input selection, and gain control
Balanced stereo headphone output
Balanced stereo line input
High precision resistors for temperature stability
Pop-less design with high quality relays
Selected high precision low-distortion volume potentiometer
Full protection with DC, over-voltage, over-current, and short-circuit
Thermal protection on headphone amplifier
High-efficiency ultra-low noise power supply
Specs:
Inputs: Balanced x 1, Unbalanced x 1
Outputs: Balanced x 1, Unbalanced x 1
Output Power:
6W x 2 (16ohm)
3W x 2 (32ohm)
440mW x 2 (300ohm)
220mW x 2 (600ohm)
SNR: 130dB, A-Weighted
Output Noise: 2.8uV, A-Weighted
THD+N: -122dB, 0.00007% (1kHz, 32ohm)
THD+N: -117dB, 0.00013% (20 - 20kHz, 32ohm, -3dB)
THD: -125dB, 0.00006% (1kHz, 16ohm, -3dB)
Output Impedance: Near 0ohm
Frequency Response: 0.1Hz - 500kHz(-3dB)
Gain: Low(+6dB), High(+18dB)
Power Supply Voltage/Frequency: AC100-240V, 50-60 Hz
Power Consumption (EN60065): 24W
Power Consumption in Standby Mode: < 0.1W
Size: 160 x 149 x 73 mm
Weight: 772gThanks again for reading this and the time it would have taken you. Hopefully he doesn't find this thread and spoil the surprise.
Edit:
From the back and forth of this thread my purpose has shifted to wanting to find a tube pre-amp to make for my friend to test out against his Topping A90.
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Since you mentioned headphones, do you mean ACP+?
ACP+ (Amp Camp Pre-Amp + Headphone Amp) – diyAudio Store
The Focals at 35ohm should work nicely with the ACP+ (designed for 32ohm load).
One thing to consider is whether your friend needs some of the features of his
existing SMSL amp (like XLR input and balanced out)
ACP+ (Amp Camp Pre-Amp + Headphone Amp) – diyAudio Store
The Focals at 35ohm should work nicely with the ACP+ (designed for 32ohm load).
One thing to consider is whether your friend needs some of the features of his
existing SMSL amp (like XLR input and balanced out)
Good point about the XLR.
I was a bit confused about the acp+ sticky thread. Your link didn't work for me but I think I found it. I guess I thought he had a headphone amp, not a pre-amp. Is the pre-amp a kit? I didn't see a case for the link I found.
I don't know if there's a full kit with chassis for the ACP+. It originated as the build
workshop project at the Burning Amp festival in 2019 and serves as a
headphone amp and line stage preamp. Here's Mr. Pass' article on it:
https://firstwatt.com/pdf/art_acp.pdf
workshop project at the Burning Amp festival in 2019 and serves as a
headphone amp and line stage preamp. Here's Mr. Pass' article on it:
https://firstwatt.com/pdf/art_acp.pdf
If I can be brutally honest here, I would advise against building an ACA for your audiophile friend as a gift for a few reasons.
He/She didn't build it themself
Some of the greatest enjoyment from a DIY amp comes from appreciating something that you've created yourself. To receive it as a gift would simply be a contest now between whether the ACA is better or if the SMSL is better.
Is it all about the numbers
If you frequent some of the popular audio (not DIY), you'll see quite often a greater emphasis on numbers as this is often the only common ground on which people can draw comparisons. Nobody really knows about the circuit design or harmonic profiles of the amps they are listening to and possibly may not have a context for it even if that information were available to them. The ACA is unlikely to compare favourably. It was designed to be great sounding and an entry point for someone who wanted a project.
It's just an amp
The ACA doesn't even have volume control. Yes you could add a pot but now you also have to consider headphone impedence and gain and that's just for starters. Just look at the features listed for the SMSL. Will your friend prioritize features including the connectivity options that Dennis listed?
The ACA is a great amp and a fantastic project but might not be the best gift for your friend. You will know how much time and energy you put into building it but they might not.
Cheers
and I hope your friend realizes how lucky they are to have you as a friend.
He/She didn't build it themself
Some of the greatest enjoyment from a DIY amp comes from appreciating something that you've created yourself. To receive it as a gift would simply be a contest now between whether the ACA is better or if the SMSL is better.
Is it all about the numbers
If you frequent some of the popular audio (not DIY), you'll see quite often a greater emphasis on numbers as this is often the only common ground on which people can draw comparisons. Nobody really knows about the circuit design or harmonic profiles of the amps they are listening to and possibly may not have a context for it even if that information were available to them. The ACA is unlikely to compare favourably. It was designed to be great sounding and an entry point for someone who wanted a project.
It's just an amp
The ACA doesn't even have volume control. Yes you could add a pot but now you also have to consider headphone impedence and gain and that's just for starters. Just look at the features listed for the SMSL. Will your friend prioritize features including the connectivity options that Dennis listed?
The ACA is a great amp and a fantastic project but might not be the best gift for your friend. You will know how much time and energy you put into building it but they might not.
Cheers
and I hope your friend realizes how lucky they are to have you as a friend.If I can be brutally honest here, I would advise against building an ACA for your audiophile friend as a gift for a few reasons.
He/She didn't build it themself
Some of the greatest enjoyment from a DIY amp comes from appreciating something that you've created yourself. To receive it as a gift would simply be a contest now between whether the ACA is better or if the SMSL is better.
Is it all about the numbers
If you frequent some of the popular audio (not DIY), you'll see quite often a greater emphasis on numbers as this is often the only common ground on which people can draw comparisons. Nobody really knows about the circuit design or harmonic profiles of the amps they are listening to and possibly may not have a context for it even if that information were available to them. The ACA is unlikely to compare favourably. It was designed to be great sounding and an entry point for someone who wanted a project.
It's just an amp
The ACA doesn't even have volume control. Yes you could add a pot but now you also have to consider headphone impedence and gain and that's just for starters. Just look at the features listed for the SMSL. Will your friend prioritize features including the connectivity options that Dennis listed?
The ACA is a great amp and a fantastic project but might not be the best gift for your friend. You will know how much time and energy you put into building it but they might not.
Cheers
Yeah, you make some good points. Thanks for the input. He seems satisfied with what he has and this doesn't really compete with it in the way I had thought. I know that even a small improvement would be worth it to him since as you get to the upper levels of things it is very tough to get even the most tiny increase in sq.
He wouldn't care about not building it himself if it was superior in functionality and numbers but I wouldn't want it to have any less features. Oh well, it was a nice idea.
I have an ACA that has been built as a headphone amp. Includes volume potentiometer and headphone jack on front panel. I'll drop you a PM about it.
The best part of the ACA (v1) was that it was a straightforward, my kid looking over my shoulder (I think he was 9 years-old, so no soldering iron for him, but he did clip leads and tighten screws), and a quick diy build. It is a low powered laptop bricks gateway build with some good SE sound, so for a kid watching it was quicker gratification for a first build.
Audiophile friends building it might take pride in that they built something (I know I do) so that may overshadow any misgivings about %THD or output power. However, might want to check first as some audiophiles don't own the requisite tools or even care to muck around a chassis.
Audiophile friends building it might take pride in that they built something (I know I do) so that may overshadow any misgivings about %THD or output power. However, might want to check first as some audiophiles don't own the requisite tools or even care to muck around a chassis.
I have used ACA as a headphone amp for years. It is great. However, due to the fact that its inverting, polarities on the output are switched.
If you ignore total phase, switch it, then you can tie the grounds together and use it as headphone output. (If you don't it will not work as headphones amp). I do use resistor load, just like I built for tube amps, to feed the headphones, so the ACA will still see ~8 ohms.
ACP+ is far better choice for headphones. Sounds way better. Probably one of the best I heard.
If you ignore total phase, switch it, then you can tie the grounds together and use it as headphone output. (If you don't it will not work as headphones amp). I do use resistor load, just like I built for tube amps, to feed the headphones, so the ACA will still see ~8 ohms.
ACP+ is far better choice for headphones. Sounds way better. Probably one of the best I heard.
I maybe wasn't clear that I was going to buy and build it and give him the finished article. He isn't going to do or be into any soldering. That's more of my thing.
If he would appreciate the beauty of exposed circuitry, the ACP+ project is easy to build and sounds amazing. It’s my everyday preamp/hpa. That said, you could even go the next step and find a chassis, do some nice customizations, and make it a one of a kind.
Attachments
Yeah, I think that would be a cool thing to put together maybe in some sort of see through acrylic case and give to him for him to give his feedback on. He might like the output of it for certain types of stuff over his other gear.
Okay, well if your audiophile friend is well informed and knows the name Nelson Pass, then for $170 more than ACA+ and a single lottery chance, there is the upcoming Sony VFET part 1.
Now this HERE is a gift.
You have a chance to get a numbered, limited edition (due to component scarcity of Sony VFETs not being made anymore anywhere), 1 of 180 kits, cased in a great looking case, Pass designed SE circuit, 10 watt amplifier.
As nice as the ACA+ might be, that could be your fall back gift. The Sony VFET is going to be a showpiece and show stopper made in celebration to mark Nelson Pass and his 20 year involvement in diyaudio.com .
Did I mention proceeds are going to charity?
Now, that right there would be a gift... sure a diminutive 10 watts in a small/medium case, but I know that would find a place in the front with my tube amps and Aleph J (a.k.a. the winter amp).
Details in the link below, read it through page by page because there are details of the lottery process, 15 minute window of opportunity, and valuable insight by the team who put this kit together.
DIY Sony VFET pt 1
Thoughts?
Now this HERE is a gift.
You have a chance to get a numbered, limited edition (due to component scarcity of Sony VFETs not being made anymore anywhere), 1 of 180 kits, cased in a great looking case, Pass designed SE circuit, 10 watt amplifier.
As nice as the ACA+ might be, that could be your fall back gift. The Sony VFET is going to be a showpiece and show stopper made in celebration to mark Nelson Pass and his 20 year involvement in diyaudio.com .
Did I mention proceeds are going to charity?
Now, that right there would be a gift... sure a diminutive 10 watts in a small/medium case, but I know that would find a place in the front with my tube amps and Aleph J (a.k.a. the winter amp).
Details in the link below, read it through page by page because there are details of the lottery process, 15 minute window of opportunity, and valuable insight by the team who put this kit together.
DIY Sony VFET pt 1
Thoughts?
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Yeah, I need to consider that also. Cool. Nice to have options. Could you summarize the main differences between the two? I will look and try to see myself but I might not be able to discern. I would appreciate more of your thoughts on it. Thanks.
I might still involve him and let him choose or veto the idea entirely. If he maybe looks at the specs and says he Is interested then I would do the one he chooses.
As I mentioned in my OP, the emai about the Sony VFET is what reminded and rejuvenated me on this idea to build one myself to give to him in the hope that it would be an awesome piece of audio tech he would really appreciate more than I would from a sound quality perspective and would get good use out of. The VFET interests me and I would buy and build it for sure but there is no guarantee I could get one. Super cool. I read all about it yesterday when the email came through and it got me hyped and made me want to build something else. It looks great also!
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First, I think it's absolutely wonderful that you're considering doing this for a friend. Without knowing too much, I'll assume a few things, and ask a few questions that perhaps you can answer or wiggle out of them.
1) Do you have the need for a loudspeaker amplifier, headphone amplifier, pre-amplifier or something that works as a combination of the above? You're covering quite the range. Yes, loudspeaker amps can work as HP amps, but you'd need to do some extra work... and unless you really want to try it... why? They likely can't use it (well) unless you modify it. I'd personally rule those out unless there is a VERY compelling reason.
2) I think it was previously asked, but if your friend is a "spec junky" or needs balanced, then those are important things to know. I can say from experience that sometimes I prefer things that don't measure quite as well. I'm sure whatever you build will be graciously received. However, you have some choices to make. You can consider building something sort of on the opposite end of the spectrum (the ACP+, a Noir, or a design with a NuTube) to his current kit. Has your friend ever used a tube HP amp? Did they like anything about it? Or you can choose something that I'd consider closer to a mid point (the WHAMMY or a BA-3). You can go with something a bit closer in intent (exceptional measurements) to his existing gear with a Neurochrome build as an example. If he needs/wants balanced, then options get a bit more limited, but we can provide some.
Now... to your real question.
1) WHAMMY
You can roll op-amps quite easily. The WHAMMY takes on the sound character from whatever op-amp you use with it. Your friend may or may not want to have some fun with it.
You can get it with a full kit with a full build guide. Soon, you can even get a very nice ready-made chassis for it.
It has the credential of being a headphone amplifier that Wayne Colburn of Pass Labs fame designed for his own personal use. I'd dare say that he could have his pick of just about anything.
You can build it "bone stock", and it will sound wonderful. Then you can play with it to your heart's content. It never gets old, but you also never have to change a thing if you don't want.
It's a fabulous pre-amp.
If your friend cringes at the use of SMPSs and MUST have a linear PSU... OK, pick this one. However, if you were considering an ACA... that's irrelevant.
2) ACP+
If you love the heritage of a First Watt J2, this is a "baby" J2 by some accounts. That may be close to the words of Nelson Pass himself.
Works very well as a pre-amp.
It has a very sweet/relaxed sound, but it might not measure super well, particularly when compared to your friend's existing gear. It is absolutely NOT set up for lowest distortion / best measurements. It is specifically tuned to provide (what some consider to be) a very pleasing sound. I adore it.
In my experience, it doesn't work quite as well with a really broad range of HPs as the WHAMMY. It should work wonderfully with your friend's existing pair listed in your original post. It may not work as well with 600 ohm cans w/o some tweaks. Some consider tweaking 1/2 the fun. Up to you.
No build guide per se. However, it is a fairly simple build. There is one particular step that can be a stumbling block for some builders. If using a DMM and swapping out a few resistors doesn't scare you, then carry on. You will likely need to tinker a bit and use Ohm's law. That's frustrating for some, enjoyable for others.
No chassis unless you source one yourself. I like mine in the open air. That may not appeal to some.
If your friend doesn't mind an SMPS or doesn't know the difference, cool. I don't understand what all the fuss is about, but that's me. I only bring up those points b/c I have an "audiophile friend" that cringes at anything with an SMPS for no reason I can relate to only that they read it "somewhere" that "they say" SMPSs are baaaaad.
3) Odd Suggestion - Build them both with your friend together if possible. Have a blast with the builds. They'll likely never care about the measurements from something they built. Let your friend pick the one they want to take home. You hang onto the other. Switch a few months later. Wash, rinse, repeat. You can do both cheaper than the ACA. Why bother choosing? 😀
1.1) I don't have a strong need for a headphone amp or pre-amp. I could probably use a loudspeaker amp to drive some PA speakers. I never replaced one I had that got stolen but I was using it to play guitar through an amp modeler. I have these nice Senheiser HD 600 headphones my friend gave me that would probably sound a lot better through a headphone amp. I have never tried one. I could probably use one with them and enjoy them more. I don't know what I'm missing yet. I also have some Etymotic earphones my friend suggested I buy that would probably sound better though an amp also.
1.2) I actually searched back through conversations and think he might have a new headphone amp now. I am going to ask some more probing questions.
I don't think he has any experience with a tube HP amp. That actually interests me the most since I like what tube guitar amps can give you. He might prefer a more neutral amp that doesn't colour the sound at all, BUT if that's what he currently has, maybe he would like the different option of how a tube can colour it in some cases or even just enjoy the difference or the opportunity to listen in that way. That is something that intrigues me and would be cool to build. I think there is a good chance he might want or need balanced. I know he has mentioned something about that before. I will try to get more info on that.
I am leaning towards ignoring any surprise stuff and just telling him about my idea and letting him be a part of the research process and if he's into it, I'd try to build it and would take into consideration things he would do or want to do and ways to use it I may not understand.
2.1) The whammy idea seems pretty good to me. Being able to maybe get a hand full of chips and let him change them and try to pick which one he likes the best could be interesting. That will be one thing for me to propose to him.
2.2) He might enjoy another headphone pre-amp just to be able to compare it to his other stuff. He likes to do that sort of thing.
smps: I don't think he cares about switched mode power supplies.
2.3) My friend is in a different country than me. I'm not sure he would care about being part of the build but that isn't really going to happen.
There are things he might want and if it can be done and built to give him that I would want to do that more than the desire to surprise him. I think he does use the XLR cables. I will do more research on his setup and will give up on the surprise idea and report back with what I can find out, especially about the possibility that I have his current primary HP amp wrong.
Ok...I was right. He did get a new amp. Topping A90. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088T4Q9RJ)
Stellias into the A90 4 prong XLR front then XLR out to the Topping D90 DAC then USB into his computer. He said he also has his TV connected to the DAC with TOSLINK but mostly just uses them for music.
His old setup was the SP200 and M300 DAC. He upgraded after he got those new headphones.
He has dan clark audio aeon 2s, elears and shure 1540s also.
I asked him if he ever thought of trying a tube amp or wanted to and he said he would like to try one since many swear by the tube sound. I think that's the ticket! I need to build him his first tube headphone pre-amp.
I would prefer a kit to make things easier on me since I'm just looking to break out my hakko and cobble it together, but if I have to I can order all the parts and do more work, that's not a huge issue.
Totally changing the main question of this thread now (I can make a new one, if needed), what tube headphone pre-amps are there out there for me to build? Any kits? This is where I would really need help to try and choose a good one since I don't even have a clue what the level of his gear is. Thanks for all the input from folks here who know so much more than me. Now that I have the info on what his exact setup is, hopefully you can make suggestions that would be for some gear that would impress him or be possibly better than what he has. I don't want to just make a tube pre-amp that isn't going to compete with his stuff.
Stellias into the A90 4 prong XLR front then XLR out to the Topping D90 DAC then USB into his computer. He said he also has his TV connected to the DAC with TOSLINK but mostly just uses them for music.
His old setup was the SP200 and M300 DAC. He upgraded after he got those new headphones.
He has dan clark audio aeon 2s, elears and shure 1540s also.
I asked him if he ever thought of trying a tube amp or wanted to and he said he would like to try one since many swear by the tube sound. I think that's the ticket! I need to build him his first tube headphone pre-amp.
I would prefer a kit to make things easier on me since I'm just looking to break out my hakko and cobble it together, but if I have to I can order all the parts and do more work, that's not a huge issue.
Totally changing the main question of this thread now (I can make a new one, if needed), what tube headphone pre-amps are there out there for me to build? Any kits? This is where I would really need help to try and choose a good one since I don't even have a clue what the level of his gear is. Thanks for all the input from folks here who know so much more than me. Now that I have the info on what his exact setup is, hopefully you can make suggestions that would be for some gear that would impress him or be possibly better than what he has. I don't want to just make a tube pre-amp that isn't going to compete with his stuff.
What he said. The ACA’s prime purpose is simple. The VFET does not have those constraints. More will follow in these amps footsteps, but the limited edition will be very special sonically and as a limited thing, only 179 other people wil have one (if you are lucky enuff to win, worth buying a ticket). The ACA is a bargin at just over $300. The VFET could easily sell-out at a price many times the $500 price.
But, one has to keep in mind that an ACA is more like a typical SE tube amp in terms of speakers it is happy with… what speakers does your buddy have?
dave