power supply noise

flux01 · 3rd February 2004, 08:39 PM

I'm building my first class A amp, the Zen IV, and am presently putting the power supply together. I want to look at the regulated power supply and see how much noise is actually there. I've got a Tek 2445 scope, however I can't deny I'm a little nervous about connecting it up to the power supply. I have no real basis for this fear, I just need someone to say, "Go ahead, hook up the scope, you won't fry it!" Thank you in advance for assuaging my irrational fears. On the off chance that my nervousness is valid, I'd appreciate knowing that too!
Cheers,
Dave

Netlist · 5th February 2004, 10:27 AM

Hi Dave
Are you and your scope still alive?

/Hugo

JOE DIRT® · 5th February 2004, 11:21 AM

check with your meter first LOL and make sure the supply is fused then go ahead with the scope

jan.didden · 5th February 2004, 12:32 PM

Check what with your meter first?
I don't understand these questions. What is the problem of putting a scope probe on a supply? The scope's only purpose in life is to do these things.

Jan Didden

SeanPool · 5th February 2004, 03:21 PM

Hi Dave,

I know Oscilloscopes are fairly expensive, but they do have a very high input impedance. This simply means that they don't fry up easily. A lot of people hook them up to 220 Vac all the time in my lab, and they don't get fried.

-Sean

jackinnj · 5th February 2004, 03:51 PM

take a look at the several application notes at Linear Technology on noise measurement. They are sprinkled through LLTC's literature -- App Note 70 comes to mind -- although it deals with switching regulators there is an appendix devoted to noise measurement.

to measure noise, you really have to measure it within a known bandwidth -- that's why some of the old TEK 5XXX series scope plugins (like the 5A22N differential amplifier) are so wonderful -- you can set them up for 10Hz to 10kHz bandwidth, and the scope was designed for measurements just like this in automotive and medical technology. The 5A22N measures down to 10uV/cm and as high as 50V/cm. There have also been designs in recent issues of AudioXpress for a low noise measurement preamplifer.

SY · 5th February 2004, 04:43 PM

FWIW, I routinely use my scope on tube equipment, with about 10 times higher voltages. To see what's going on with the power supply, just use the AC coupling for the input.

One other fun trick I've mentioned before is to connect a cap between the supply rail and a headphone amp. Play music or test tones through the amp and listen through headphones- you'll hear for yourself what's on the rail besides DC.

flux01 · 7th February 2004, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Netlist
Hi Dave
Are you and your scope still alive?

/Hugo

Well, I'm fine. My scope, however, is not.
I'm not exactly sure what happened, but when I connected it up there was a nice pop, and the scope now seems to be dead. So... that didn't turn out quite as I had hoped! Ahh well, I'm sure I'll get it back working soon enough.
Dave

jackinnj · 7th February 2004, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flux01

Well, I'm fine. My scope, however, is not.
I'm not exactly sure what happened, but when I connected it up there was a nice pop, and the scope now seems to be dead. So... that didn't turn out quite as I had hoped! Ahh well, I'm sure I'll get it back working soon enough.
Dave

You "needed" a differential probe -- there was probably a differential between the "ground" of the scope probe and the "ground" of the device under test -- we all learn this the hard way.

flux01 · 7th February 2004, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jackinnj

You "needed" a differential probe -- there was probably a differential between the "ground" of the scope probe and the "ground" of the device under test -- we all learn this the hard way.

So how hard of a lesson is this? Do you know what's wrong with the scope, and how to fix it? Thanks for the information, btw.

3rd February 2004, 08:39 PM	#1
flux01 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Waterloo	power supply noise I'm building my first class A amp, the Zen IV, and am presently putting the power supply together. I want to look at the regulated power supply and see how much noise is actually there. I've got a Tek 2445 scope, however I can't deny I'm a little nervous about connecting it up to the power supply. I have no real basis for this fear, I just need someone to say, "Go ahead, hook up the scope, you won't fry it!" Thank you in advance for assuaging my irrational fears. On the off chance that my nervousness is valid, I'd appreciate knowing that too! Cheers, Dave

5th February 2004, 04:43 PM	#7
SY diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicagoland	FWIW, I routinely use my scope on tube equipment, with about 10 times higher voltages. To see what's going on with the power supply, just use the AC coupling for the input. One other fun trick I've mentioned before is to connect a cap between the supply rail and a headphone amp. Play music or test tones through the amp and listen through headphones- you'll hear for yourself what's on the rail besides DC. __________________ "You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."

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5th February 2004, 10:27 AM	#2
Netlist diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2003	Hi Dave Are you and your scope still alive? /Hugo

5th February 2004, 11:21 AM	#3
JOE DIRT® diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brantford, ON	check with your meter first LOL and make sure the supply is fused then go ahead with the scope

5th February 2004, 12:32 PM	#4
jan.didden diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Westende Resort, BE coast	Check what with your meter first? I don't understand these questions. What is the problem of putting a scope probe on a supply? The scope's only purpose in life is to do these things. Jan Didden

5th February 2004, 03:21 PM	#5
SeanPool diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bangkok, Thailand	Hi Dave, I know Oscilloscopes are fairly expensive, but they do have a very high input impedance. This simply means that they don't fry up easily. A lot of people hook them up to 220 Vac all the time in my lab, and they don't get fried. -Sean

5th February 2004, 03:51 PM	#6
jackinnj diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Llanddewi Brefi, NJ	take a look at the several application notes at Linear Technology on noise measurement. They are sprinkled through LLTC's literature -- App Note 70 comes to mind -- although it deals with switching regulators there is an appendix devoted to noise measurement. to measure noise, you really have to measure it within a known bandwidth -- that's why some of the old TEK 5XXX series scope plugins (like the 5A22N differential amplifier) are so wonderful -- you can set them up for 10Hz to 10kHz bandwidth, and the scope was designed for measurements just like this in automotive and medical technology. The 5A22N measures down to 10uV/cm and as high as 50V/cm. There have also been designs in recent issues of AudioXpress for a low noise measurement preamplifer.