Hi!
I have always been wanting to build a high power amplifier, before I was checking out different class ab/b solutions but has since changed direction towards Class A completely.
I am searching for about 100W/channel, but what is cheapest? Biamping 2*V.2 Vs Building 2*V.3 as one per channel? I am going to use the cards diyaudio store offers, as they seems good and worth the price..
It's all the other costs I have no good info on about how much it will end up costing.
Chassis I do have, that's the only thing I already have.
Can someone please give me an guesstimation on how much the different versions will end up in cost when finished?
Best wishes, Sibbeli.
Ps. I just woke up, dreaming about this so excuse me if I an missing something obvious or if my English isn't correct.
The reason I want 100w per channel is that I want to build an amp solution that will drive anything and that I only want to build theese amps, I think they will satisfy me enough so that I don't need to build another later on.
I have always been wanting to build a high power amplifier, before I was checking out different class ab/b solutions but has since changed direction towards Class A completely.
I am searching for about 100W/channel, but what is cheapest? Biamping 2*V.2 Vs Building 2*V.3 as one per channel? I am going to use the cards diyaudio store offers, as they seems good and worth the price..
It's all the other costs I have no good info on about how much it will end up costing.
Chassis I do have, that's the only thing I already have.
Can someone please give me an guesstimation on how much the different versions will end up in cost when finished?
Best wishes, Sibbeli.
Ps. I just woke up, dreaming about this so excuse me if I an missing something obvious or if my English isn't correct.
The reason I want 100w per channel is that I want to build an amp solution that will drive anything and that I only want to build theese amps, I think they will satisfy me enough so that I don't need to build another later on.
you're realizing that 100W/8R per channel is almost common thing with AB/B class amps , but if you insist on A class entirely up to 100W , then you're in trouble
so , F5 turbo , having 100W/8R is doable , but with implemented silent Klunk!!
on the other hand - everything is covered in article
http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_f5_turbo.pdf
so , F5 turbo , having 100W/8R is doable , but with implemented silent Klunk!!
on the other hand - everything is covered in article
http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_f5_turbo.pdf
Cheapest is a design, of which the bias level can be switched to a percentage class A operation.
Very likely that your current loudspeakers have no need for a full class A power amp.
Reducing bias level of a 100W power amp to 25% class A operation, gives class AB transition at a sound pressure level where crossover distortion is indistinguishable on most common loudspeakers.
Saves half on the electricity bill, and the electrolytic caps in your amp last twice as long.
Also handy on moments you do not wish to wait half an hour for your power amp to warm up.
(Huh, did I just say that ?)
Try http://www.kk-pcb.com
The components are all readily available but you do need 4 x hextets (6) of matched MOS-FETs. All 24 don't need to be matched, just the groups of 6.
Jacco's comment above is perfectly valid if you have relatively efficient speakers. I heard a MASSIVE difference when switching to the Aleph 4 but my speakers are particularly efficient. I haven't heard any of the other Alephs, the F5 was nowhere near as pleasant to listen to as the Aleph 4.
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To OP ,
I'm not trying to doubt you but when you say you have the chassis, do you really?
Are your heatsinks large enough to handle a 100Wpc class A amp?
a 100Wpc AB operation amp requires much less heatsinking than a Class A design.
The cost in building a FW Pass amp is really not the circuit, its everything else that you need to power and run it. The power supply needs to be robust, the heat dissipation needs to be efficient. The total cost of one of these amps is really the ancillary parts, ie , PSU, case, heatsink etc. The circuit, I would say is probably only 15-20% of the total cost of the project.
I'm not trying to doubt you but when you say you have the chassis, do you really?
Are your heatsinks large enough to handle a 100Wpc class A amp?
a 100Wpc AB operation amp requires much less heatsinking than a Class A design.
The cost in building a FW Pass amp is really not the circuit, its everything else that you need to power and run it. The power supply needs to be robust, the heat dissipation needs to be efficient. The total cost of one of these amps is really the ancillary parts, ie , PSU, case, heatsink etc. The circuit, I would say is probably only 15-20% of the total cost of the project.
Chassis will be built by me if the chassis I have already isn't suitable.
When I was into class ab I was looking at 2-300w/channel solutions.
This amp, that I am going to build, should have top notch soundquality, and most folks have told me to look at class A then, and some have totally ruled out ab as an alternative able to reproduce top notch soundquality.
The speakers I am about to Start building is the Elsinores, all parts are already home, except the horns/wgs.
They ate efficient, but this amp is certainly going to drive other speakers somewhere along the timeline as it is much more likely that I will build another pair of speakers than an amp/s
When I was into class ab I was looking at 2-300w/channel solutions.
This amp, that I am going to build, should have top notch soundquality, and most folks have told me to look at class A then, and some have totally ruled out ab as an alternative able to reproduce top notch soundquality.
The speakers I am about to Start building is the Elsinores, all parts are already home, except the horns/wgs.
They ate efficient, but this amp is certainly going to drive other speakers somewhere along the timeline as it is much more likely that I will build another pair of speakers than an amp/s
The Aleph 4 requires a minimum of a 400W PSU per channel. As you can see in my last post the heatsinks need to be substantial as it will be dissipating about 400W in heat alone. The results are absolutely astounding - well worth the effort - best amplifier that I have ever heard. Here in the moderate UK, my Aleph 4 runs at about 55 degrees C, which is good for reliability.
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Hi Sibbeli,
I don't know the answer to your question, but I can share my experience (building a scaled down V2, with 26V rails, 1 pair of Mosfets and diode, biased at around 8W class A) with you, hopefully it will be useful. The thing is, I built this as a practice so that I gain confidence in building the ultimate amp that I originally imagined I would build, a V3 with 40V rails biased at 50W class A.
To my surprise, this scaled down V2 sounds so good that I don't feel the urge to start building the bigger version anymore. First of all, the SPL that I get from it (I am using a pair of B&W 805D, with 88dB specified sensitivity, the V2 is paired with a passive pre-amp and I listen to FLAC files of classical music and jazz vocals fed into a USB dac) is more than enough, and I also did not notice any sonic difference when I play music at low or high volume. Well, I live in a small apartment, therefore the amount of power provided by this scaled down V2 has always been more than enough.
The lesson I learnt from this build is that even speakers with very moderate sensitivity do not need huge power to drive. Before the build, I was using a Meridian 556 as power amp, which is rated at 100W into 8 ohms. I have no idea on the design of the amp circuit, whether it is class A, or AB etc. What I can say is the F5T is streets ahead of the Meridian in terms of sound quality, with much less power output and a mere 8W class A bias. At this moment, I have already bought Aleph J boards from Diyaudio store, and I bet it would give me equally enjoyable music as does the F5TV2.
So I think maybe you need to consider whether you really need the 100W of power, and does it need to be biased into class A at 100W before making the decision on which amp to build.
I don't know the answer to your question, but I can share my experience (building a scaled down V2, with 26V rails, 1 pair of Mosfets and diode, biased at around 8W class A) with you, hopefully it will be useful. The thing is, I built this as a practice so that I gain confidence in building the ultimate amp that I originally imagined I would build, a V3 with 40V rails biased at 50W class A.
To my surprise, this scaled down V2 sounds so good that I don't feel the urge to start building the bigger version anymore. First of all, the SPL that I get from it (I am using a pair of B&W 805D, with 88dB specified sensitivity, the V2 is paired with a passive pre-amp and I listen to FLAC files of classical music and jazz vocals fed into a USB dac) is more than enough, and I also did not notice any sonic difference when I play music at low or high volume. Well, I live in a small apartment, therefore the amount of power provided by this scaled down V2 has always been more than enough.
The lesson I learnt from this build is that even speakers with very moderate sensitivity do not need huge power to drive. Before the build, I was using a Meridian 556 as power amp, which is rated at 100W into 8 ohms. I have no idea on the design of the amp circuit, whether it is class A, or AB etc. What I can say is the F5T is streets ahead of the Meridian in terms of sound quality, with much less power output and a mere 8W class A bias. At this moment, I have already bought Aleph J boards from Diyaudio store, and I bet it would give me equally enjoyable music as does the F5TV2.
So I think maybe you need to consider whether you really need the 100W of power, and does it need to be biased into class A at 100W before making the decision on which amp to build.
This is a 27W into 8ohms F5.
It could be biased to low ClassA current or higher ClassA current, but it is still a 27W amplifier.
Even the standard F5 can do ~ 50W into 4ohms and your version with the added diode should at least match this.
Hi guys! I have previously owned a nad 3050 and I enjoyed the sound and drive of it very much, but, when I later bought a Nad 2200 amp+ HK as pre, the difference in drive, dynamic, and all what comes with another 80w "rms" and 380w peak, the difference can't really be explained good in my bad english. It was just astounding.
That's why I am after high power, when I checked out AB amps I was looking for 2-400w amps, then I learned more, got somewhat hooked on simple circuits with enormous potential, ie NP amps, I decided on that my speakers should atleast have a full 50w and preferably 100+ watts. The dynamic range the 2200 nad showed me just convinced me and I am hooked on it. I often just listen at moderate levels but I do use my setup at parties then and then and then I certainly go far beyond the first watt
I have never got the 2200 to clip, but the old 3050 often did.
Can you guys who have built F5 v.2 and v.3 please post what got total bill was when completed?
At the moment I am thinking of building a pair of v.2 amps I biwire. Then, I can also see if 50w pure class A is enough as I in that case will order enough pcbs for the possibility to build both v.2 % v.3 as that isn't any big cost.
I have another question, an important one, can you guys give me your thoughts on what is the best preamp to build for use with the F5??
I haven't got the gain bit totally checked out and for the moment really don't know what it's about, I have all important audio books at home where I can chech it out, but I am on a visit at my mom's house fir Christmas so can't check it out now.
The pre needs to have volume pot, it is a must. Preamps, I really don't know so much about so please help me.
A link to where I can read up about gain would also be really nice guys!
Thanks in advance dear friends, AND A MERRY CHRISTMAS AT ALL OF YOU!
That's why I am after high power, when I checked out AB amps I was looking for 2-400w amps, then I learned more, got somewhat hooked on simple circuits with enormous potential, ie NP amps, I decided on that my speakers should atleast have a full 50w and preferably 100+ watts. The dynamic range the 2200 nad showed me just convinced me and I am hooked on it. I often just listen at moderate levels but I do use my setup at parties then and then and then I certainly go far beyond the first watt
I have never got the 2200 to clip, but the old 3050 often did.Can you guys who have built F5 v.2 and v.3 please post what got total bill was when completed?
At the moment I am thinking of building a pair of v.2 amps I biwire. Then, I can also see if 50w pure class A is enough as I in that case will order enough pcbs for the possibility to build both v.2 % v.3 as that isn't any big cost.
I have another question, an important one, can you guys give me your thoughts on what is the best preamp to build for use with the F5??
I haven't got the gain bit totally checked out and for the moment really don't know what it's about, I have all important audio books at home where I can chech it out, but I am on a visit at my mom's house fir Christmas so can't check it out now.
The pre needs to have volume pot, it is a must. Preamps, I really don't know so much about so please help me.
A link to where I can read up about gain would also be really nice guys!
Thanks in advance dear friends, AND A MERRY CHRISTMAS AT ALL OF YOU!
sibbeli - Would you post a few photos of your chassis? That's going to be the single most important item determining what amp you can actually build. The heatsink requirements are immense. These amps have idle heat of more than 200W.
Also, you sometimes mention building a pair of F5Tv2, you have 2 chassis?
Also, you sometimes mention building a pair of F5Tv2, you have 2 chassis?
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