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search: capacitor dielectric
in electronic and parts forum:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/sear...d=101242&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending
on the question of are they low esr, I just did a test and they appear to be.
tested
1. Nichicon FG 10uF 50 V 1.2 Ohms
2. generic 10uF 50V 1.4 ohms
3. rubycon ZA 10uF 50V .7 Ohms
note I did this test once before but had a panasonic FC instead of the Nichicon. it was 10uF 50V and measured about 3 Ohms.
so I'd say since panasonic FC's are low esr and rubycon ZA's are ultra low impedance, the FG (muse) is not to shabby in that respect....
from the datasheets the FG and ZA have the same leakage, and the ZA has the edge in DF, but the FG's come in higher voltage versions than the ZA, and their DF gets better as the voltage exceeds the highest rated ZA.
whether or not this means anything
I used speaker workshop to measure.... the FG was 9.9uF the ZA 9.3 and the generic 8.6..... but on a sample of one all this could be complete BS
ok to add a little more credibility I tested the other two nichicon FG's I had, both 9.9uF both 1.1 Ohms, so one thing that seems to be the case from my small sample is that the tolerance is really tight. I only have one rubycon ZA......
Tony.
tested
1. Nichicon FG 10uF 50 V 1.2 Ohms
2. generic 10uF 50V 1.4 ohms
3. rubycon ZA 10uF 50V .7 Ohms
note I did this test once before but had a panasonic FC instead of the Nichicon. it was 10uF 50V and measured about 3 Ohms.
so I'd say since panasonic FC's are low esr and rubycon ZA's are ultra low impedance, the FG (muse) is not to shabby in that respect....
from the datasheets the FG and ZA have the same leakage, and the ZA has the edge in DF, but the FG's come in higher voltage versions than the ZA, and their DF gets better as the voltage exceeds the highest rated ZA.
whether or not this means anything
I used speaker workshop to measure.... the FG was 9.9uF the ZA 9.3 and the generic 8.6..... but on a sample of one all this could be complete BS
ok to add a little more credibility I tested the other two nichicon FG's I had, both 9.9uF both 1.1 Ohms, so one thing that seems to be the case from my small sample is that the tolerance is really tight. I only have one rubycon ZA......
Tony.
Thanks, I couldnt find any real data sheets on the various "audio" grade caps.
This twadle about 99.9% pure copper etc, from memory thats what std copper stock is anyway.
Just sad that if they are better, why dont they bring them out in 105c vs the current 85c.
makes me more inclined to use low imp 105c.
Cheaper and easier to get.
This twadle about 99.9% pure copper etc, from memory thats what std copper stock is anyway.
Just sad that if they are better, why dont they bring them out in 105c vs the current 85c.
makes me more inclined to use low imp 105c.
Cheaper and easier to get.
true but some have more info than others. The nichicon FG series for example has no info on ESR, no graphs, just basic info, like ripple current capability, DF, and reliabiliy data. I thought it was a bit light on
It can be pretty hard (if not impossible) to find datasheets for a lot of asian capacitors, which are what are generally available here in Aus from the mainstream electronics shops.
Tony.
It can be pretty hard (if not impossible) to find datasheets for a lot of asian capacitors, which are what are generally available here in Aus from the mainstream electronics shops.
Tony.
phillips is excellent
panasonic is good too
'audio' grade , good quality caps can b said audio.caps differ in const. method,quality of material,filling,sealing etc etc.so better r these parmeters,better they will b close to ideal.
so a v.good cap(low leakage,temp. tollerant,little deviation from stated value,constant parameters even after prolonged use) can be called an 'audio' cap.
panasonic is good too
'audio' grade , good quality caps can b said audio.caps differ in const. method,quality of material,filling,sealing etc etc.so better r these parmeters,better they will b close to ideal.
so a v.good cap(low leakage,temp. tollerant,little deviation from stated value,constant parameters even after prolonged use) can be called an 'audio' cap.
During the 70's and 80's the buzz word was computer grade electrolytic capacitors from big name manufacturers.
A quick question. Why did you only try one frequency?on the question of are they low esr, I just did a test and they appear to be.
tested
1. Nichicon FG 10uF 50 V 1.2 Ohms
2. generic 10uF 50V 1.4 ohms
3. rubycon ZA 10uF 50V .7 Ohms
note I did this test once before but had a panasonic FC instead of the Nichicon. it was 10uF 50V and measured about 3 Ohms.
so I'd say since panasonic FC's are low esr and rubycon ZA's are ultra low impedance, the FG (muse) is not to shabby in that respect....
from the datasheets the FG and ZA have the same leakage, and the ZA has the edge in DF, but the FG's come in higher voltage versions than the ZA, and their DF gets better as the voltage exceeds the highest rated ZA.
whether or not this means anything
I used speaker workshop to measure.... the FG was 9.9uF the ZA 9.3 and the generic 8.6..... but on a sample of one all this could be complete BS
ok to add a little more credibility I tested the other two nichicon FG's I had, both 9.9uF both 1.1 Ohms, so one thing that seems to be the case from my small sample is that the tolerance is really tight. I only have one rubycon ZA......
Tony.
jn
Couldn't tell ya. I saw the single datapoint for resistance and capacitance, and assumed that meant one frequency.
If I were worried about how "audio grade" a capacitor was, I'd want the date for capacitance and resistance across the entire audio spectrum. I've seen lots of lytic datasheets which show capacitance taking a dive with frequency.
jn
ps..been kinda tired of late...started last Saturday...mebbe I caught sumptin... how bout you?
Most probably, particularly for loudspeaker crossover networks, where current input is much higher, the caps could actually "sing" or mechanically vibrate.
Because I didn't really know what I was doing??
It was 8 years ago, it would be interesting to compare the same caps with my BlueESR meter, I'd forgotten that SW actually gave the esr, so would be interesting to compare results (the blueESR does only use a single frequency from memory). and yes SY SW does use a MLS to do the measurement.
Tony.
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