Hi, i have now read ALOT on crossovers and read about everything i could find out about the Hivi K1 tweeter and tangband W4-657SC. I made a simple 2nd order butterworth XO at 3000hz, including an attenuation circuit for the tweeter. the problem is that it's way to much treble, and its too weak in the mid. when playing with just the w4 connected the tone plays way up in the treble range. i can easily hear the tone (when using NCH tone generator) at frequencies up to 8-10khz!! is this normal? i'll guess this is why the treble is so dominating..?
is there anyone here with experience on these two drivers? who can help me out?
I use the two drivers in a 2-way system, closed 2litre box. it's going to be used with a small subwoofer.
Thanks in advance
is there anyone here with experience on these two drivers? who can help me out?
I use the two drivers in a 2-way system, closed 2litre box. it's going to be used with a small subwoofer.
Thanks in advance
skogs said:I made a simple 2nd order butterworth XO at 3000hz, including an attenuation circuit for the tweeter. the problem is that it's way to much treble, and its too weak in the mid. when playing with just the w4 connected the tone plays way up in the treble range. i can easily hear the tone (when using NCH tone generator) at frequencies up to 8-10khz!! is this normal? i'll guess this is why the treble is so dominating..?
is there anyone here with experience on these two drivers? who can help me out?
I use the two drivers in a 2-way system, closed 2litre box. it's going to be used with a small subwoofer.
Thanks in advance
Hi, presumably "cookbook" crossovers and completely wrong.
Your problem is likely wrong c/o values and
not accounting for baffle step compensation.
/sreten./sreten.yes i'lk guess that whats wrong. (allthough it seemed like something was completely wrong, like f.eks the Tb played fullrange or something. it lacked ALOT of low and mid frequencies, and it's supposed to play flat down to at least beneath 150hz. the treble was really dominating!)
sounded like there was not only someting wrong in between 2-4khz (XO at 3khz), but also everything beneath it.
I have used an attenuation filter, so the tweeter should have the same sensitivity as the woofer.
sounded like there was not only someting wrong in between 2-4khz (XO at 3khz), but also everything beneath it.
I have used an attenuation filter, so the tweeter should have the same sensitivity as the woofer.
Hi,
After BSC the tweeter should have 4dB to 6dB less output than
the nominal midrange sensitivity of the bass / midrange driver.
Cookbook crossovers tend to assume the drivers are resistive,
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/fr.html
not too hideous an assumption for the tweeter, but completely
wrong for the mid/bass unit dure to its (lossy) inductance.
This is compounded by the lack of BSC that should be applied
to the bass mid driver.
Read this thread, it may be useful :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88567
/sreten.
After BSC the tweeter should have 4dB to 6dB less output than
the nominal midrange sensitivity of the bass / midrange driver.
Cookbook crossovers tend to assume the drivers are resistive,
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/fr.html
not too hideous an assumption for the tweeter, but completely
wrong for the mid/bass unit dure to its (lossy) inductance.
This is compounded by the lack of BSC that should be applied
to the bass mid driver.
Read this thread, it may be useful :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88567
/sreten.okay, thank you
but could someone please calculate the baffle step compensation for me? i do not have a clue how it's done! after what i've read different places, i think a 3rd order butterworth would do fine. and cross over at around 3khz.
http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=30
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w4-657sc.htm
the baffle will be about 24 x 24cm. tweeter in the upper right corner, and mid in the lower left corner.
it would be very very helpful!!
but could someone please calculate the baffle step compensation for me? i do not have a clue how it's done! after what i've read different places, i think a 3rd order butterworth would do fine. and cross over at around 3khz.
http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=30
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w4-657sc.htm
the baffle will be about 24 x 24cm. tweeter in the upper right corner, and mid in the lower left corner.
it would be very very helpful!!
I have used that unit in this speaker and maybe you can just double the inductance and half the capacitance of my low pass part of the filter for one unit (8 Ohm). Its for 2kHz -6dB and the BSC involved is just right for a stereo pair in room. If you keep the baffle width the same its gonna be nearly spot on.
a really nice person on pesupport.com designed a crossover for me but how much can the values on the inductors differ from the calculated ones? If i want it accurate i have to pay more than twice than if i can use inductors with +\- .3uF
L1: 3.75 - 3.9 polypropylen
L2: 6.5 - 4.7 + 2.2 = 6.9
L3: 7 - 6.8
can this work just fine or should i go for the expensive solution?
but how much can the values on the inductors differ from the calculated ones? If i want it accurate i have to pay more than twice than if i can use inductors with +\- .3uF L1: 3.75 - 3.9 polypropylen
L2: 6.5 - 4.7 + 2.2 = 6.9
L3: 7 - 6.8
can this work just fine or should i go for the expensive solution?
Hi just a side thought, your box is it a cube? you described 24 x 24. the shape of the box has a great effect on the midrange. traditional speaker boxes are the shape they are to minimise internal reflections that effect the midrange, 7 and 11 sided boxes do sound even better. A cube is one of the worst shapes and can really only be used for sub bass.
Experimenting with dampening materials inside the box can also smothen out the treble from experience.
Experimenting with dampening materials inside the box can also smothen out the treble from experience.
A crossover needs a holistic approach. I just say that it will sound heavy as it is. Playing with first inductor will ease bsc but it will disorganise the proposed network somehow. Have your tries anyway. A 2.5 can always be unwinded step by step to tune the speaker by ear in stereo if it will finally sound heavy to your ears too.
thanks for the help guys i'm soon finished with the new xo. just have to wind the inductors.
but in order to tweak i guess i have to know and understand all of the components function in the xo. I've studied the values of the components and compared them to this chart:
http://www.lalena.com/Audio/Tables/XOver/1stOrder.aspx
(very roughly)
and i figured that the first component of both tweeter and mid curcuit has a spesial function, but i didn't quite understand what. could someone please explain it to me? would be very helpful
i'm soon finished with the new xo. just have to wind the inductors. but in order to tweak i guess i have to know and understand all of the components function in the xo. I've studied the values of the components and compared them to this chart:
http://www.lalena.com/Audio/Tables/XOver/1stOrder.aspx
(very roughly)
and i figured that the first component of both tweeter and mid curcuit has a spesial function, but i didn't quite understand what. could someone please explain it to me? would be very helpful
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