I have a pair of altec lansing 288c compression drivers and one 12" dayton hifi sub.
I want to build some edgar tractrix horns for the drivers and run the sub up to 500hz.
Will this sub do this well? To get 500hx down I will need a fairly large box, what are some tips to keeping a such a large widerange box from sounding "boxy"
Should i try and push the size down to elevate the standing waves inside the box then use a linkwitz transform?
Give me some feedback!
Many thanks
I want to build some edgar tractrix horns for the drivers and run the sub up to 500hz.
Will this sub do this well? To get 500hx down I will need a fairly large box, what are some tips to keeping a such a large widerange box from sounding "boxy"
Should i try and push the size down to elevate the standing waves inside the box then use a linkwitz transform?
Give me some feedback!
Many thanks
: ) yeah, sorry bout that.
what i meant to say is that ultimately i want two of those sub drivers one per side. I really like the command that these woofers have and they are rated to like fifteenhundred hertz.
I would really like to avoid another driver and another crossover. ie a horn, a mid, and a subwoofer. I believe at some point i will add on a passive supertweeter from 16,000hz.
Thanks for reading
what i meant to say is that ultimately i want two of those sub drivers one per side. I really like the command that these woofers have and they are rated to like fifteenhundred hertz.
I would really like to avoid another driver and another crossover. ie a horn, a mid, and a subwoofer. I believe at some point i will add on a passive supertweeter from 16,000hz.
Thanks for reading
cool.
Ok, so here is what i am thinking. I want the box to be tall enough to rest the horn on at ear level or maybe just below, incase I add a tweeter. Maybe I can angle the whole thing or perhaps use an angled rear baffle to direct the sound waves down into two or three cubic feet of light stuffing. Heavily brace that mess and i should be off to a good start.
By the way it is a dayton 12" hifi.
First thing is first, Ill go buy wood for the horn. I have no access to a lathe, so i plan on cutting rings and stacking them, then finishing with lots of rasping. then i suppose some sort of inner coating like construction adhesive or something that will get hard and is cheap, like me! Is a smooth inner surface critical, and has anyone heard a short tractrix horn? I really would like to have my sound be on the laid back side than the bright side.
Many thanks
Ok, so here is what i am thinking. I want the box to be tall enough to rest the horn on at ear level or maybe just below, incase I add a tweeter. Maybe I can angle the whole thing or perhaps use an angled rear baffle to direct the sound waves down into two or three cubic feet of light stuffing. Heavily brace that mess and i should be off to a good start.
By the way it is a dayton 12" hifi.
First thing is first, Ill go buy wood for the horn. I have no access to a lathe, so i plan on cutting rings and stacking them, then finishing with lots of rasping. then i suppose some sort of inner coating like construction adhesive or something that will get hard and is cheap, like me! Is a smooth inner surface critical, and has anyone heard a short tractrix horn? I really would like to have my sound be on the laid back side than the bright side.
Many thanks
Dayton HiFi 12" range
I saw the results of some tests that said that sub is quite solid up to at least 300 hz. Beyond that it runs into the usual trouble with cone breakup and energy storage that aluminum cones are prone to.
I think you should consider a different driver to bridge the gap between the 12"s and the horn. You'll probably not get efficiencies very close, so that sounds like an active crossover is in order- at least between the subs and the rest.
Two of these sub drivers per side could do quite well in an open baffle dipole. They're supposed to be very quiet in operation without much turbulence, and 14mm isn't too bad for xmax.
That gives you controlled directivity with the horn, transitioning to (what?), then to dipole bass- this could be a good system with minimal room interaction.
I saw the results of some tests that said that sub is quite solid up to at least 300 hz. Beyond that it runs into the usual trouble with cone breakup and energy storage that aluminum cones are prone to.
I think you should consider a different driver to bridge the gap between the 12"s and the horn. You'll probably not get efficiencies very close, so that sounds like an active crossover is in order- at least between the subs and the rest.
Two of these sub drivers per side could do quite well in an open baffle dipole. They're supposed to be very quiet in operation without much turbulence, and 14mm isn't too bad for xmax.
That gives you controlled directivity with the horn, transitioning to (what?), then to dipole bass- this could be a good system with minimal room interaction.
Hmm, dipole bass i think is out of the question at least using these drivers due to cost right now. Perhaps i can go dipole with another driver from 500 to 100 then use the twelve to fill in below that in a small box with a transform.
i am already going active with a LR 24db/octave
do you think that playing around with damping compound may extrend the range of this driver? i would sacrifice efficiency for simplicity.
thanks
i am already going active with a LR 24db/octave
do you think that playing around with damping compound may extrend the range of this driver? i would sacrifice efficiency for simplicity.
thanks
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/287/index.html
for some inspiration.
Hi,
I severely doubt the dayton driver will work well c/o at 500Hz.
With the horn whopping sensitivity it makes sense to use a sub amp
to drive the sub and a low power Class A amplifier - presumably valve
to drive the horn.
I'd say you need a high sensitivity 12" to run from Fbox to 500Hz.
I'd use a passive crossover to the horn and drive both with the low power amplifier.
I'd arrange for the mid 12" box alignment to be Linkwitz Riley.
Then your sub amp also needs LR rolloff to be compatible.
The Dayton sub Qts is too low IMO for open baffle, use sealed loading.
If you want lots of low bass get a sub amp with adjustable bass boost.
Making all those wooden rings and the filing sounds a pain.
I'd also suggest making a turntable, using it for a plaster cast of the horn.
Coat this with wax and build your horns with GRP (glass reinforced plastic)
/sreten.
for some inspiration.
Hi,
I severely doubt the dayton driver will work well c/o at 500Hz.
With the horn whopping sensitivity it makes sense to use a sub amp
to drive the sub and a low power Class A amplifier - presumably valve
to drive the horn.
I'd say you need a high sensitivity 12" to run from Fbox to 500Hz.
I'd use a passive crossover to the horn and drive both with the low power amplifier.
I'd arrange for the mid 12" box alignment to be Linkwitz Riley.
Then your sub amp also needs LR rolloff to be compatible.
The Dayton sub Qts is too low IMO for open baffle, use sealed loading.
If you want lots of low bass get a sub amp with adjustable bass boost.
Making all those wooden rings and the filing sounds a pain.
I'd also suggest making a turntable, using it for a plaster cast of the horn.
Coat this with wax and build your horns with GRP (glass reinforced plastic)
/sreten.Hi,
The design gives frredom to place the acoustic centres at any
point to give best integration at crossover, so I presume that
is what they have done.
Most would argue for keeping overall phasing consistent
and using offset for best phasing match at crossover.
Considering the ouput of horn loaded bass I think aligning
acoustic centres is one thing horn loading fans prefer to
ignore, I dont think I ever seen aligned mid & treble horns.
(In any commercial design)
Also note active 24/dB L/R is not the same as acoustic 4th order L/R.
/sreten.
The design gives frredom to place the acoustic centres at any
point to give best integration at crossover, so I presume that
is what they have done.
Most would argue for keeping overall phasing consistent
and using offset for best phasing match at crossover.
Considering the ouput of horn loaded bass I think aligning
acoustic centres is one thing horn loading fans prefer to
ignore, I dont think I ever seen aligned mid & treble horns.
(In any commercial design)
Also note active 24/dB L/R is not the same as acoustic 4th order L/R.
/sreten.Also note active 24/dB L/R is not the same as acoustic 4th order L/R.
I dont quite understand that last statement, or at least how it applies to my setup. by acoustic 24db/octave to you mean like in a bandpass configuration?
thanks
ps
I was asking about the sub driver perfroming to 500hz because it sounded so poor when i tested it, but i figured that was because of the box it was in which has no damping being designed for a sub. So i pulled the driver out and just set it on the floor below one of my bookshelf monitors. Sounds very good. I hate boxes... If i had anough money to go dipole bass i would. My plan is to build a box about three feet high with a sloping front baffle in which to mount the driver. then i will heavily brace and stuff the inside.
I dont quite understand that last statement, or at least how it applies to my setup. by acoustic 24db/octave to you mean like in a bandpass configuration?
thanks
ps
I was asking about the sub driver perfroming to 500hz because it sounded so poor when i tested it, but i figured that was because of the box it was in which has no damping being designed for a sub. So i pulled the driver out and just set it on the floor below one of my bookshelf monitors. Sounds very good. I hate boxes... If i had anough money to go dipole bass i would. My plan is to build a box about three feet high with a sloping front baffle in which to mount the driver. then i will heavily brace and stuff the inside.
Hi,
The best implementation of LR4 is acoustic.
That is the acoustic output (amplitude and phase)
of the drivers matches LR4 exactly.
However some people seem to think you can buy (or build) a
LR4 active c/o, apply it to their drivers and have LR4 crossovers.
You can't. You get something else.
/sreten.
The best implementation of LR4 is acoustic.
That is the acoustic output (amplitude and phase)
of the drivers matches LR4 exactly.
However some people seem to think you can buy (or build) a
LR4 active c/o, apply it to their drivers and have LR4 crossovers.
You can't. You get something else.
/sreten.Hi,
if your end result is LR4, then what an active c/o has to do is:
LR4 - (the behaviour of your drive units in situ).
For example a speaker with 2nd order butterworth bass roll-off.
LR4 - (2nd order butterworth bass roll-off) = 2nd order butterworth bass roll-off
in other words
active 2nd order butterworth bass roll-off
+ speaker 2nd order butterworth bass roll-off
= acoustic LR4 bass roll-off
The complication is the speakers behaviour is rarely so convenient.
/sreten.
if your end result is LR4, then what an active c/o has to do is:
LR4 - (the behaviour of your drive units in situ).
For example a speaker with 2nd order butterworth bass roll-off.
LR4 - (2nd order butterworth bass roll-off) = 2nd order butterworth bass roll-off
in other words
active 2nd order butterworth bass roll-off
+ speaker 2nd order butterworth bass roll-off
= acoustic LR4 bass roll-off
The complication is the speakers behaviour is rarely so convenient.
/sreten.update!!!
But no pics as of late...
I made a 450hz horn of tractrix contour and it is just lovely. Using the 12 sub driver up to 500hz worried me a bit but I have since put felt over the dust cap. To my ears eliminated any "coneyness" which was apparent when listening to the driver by itself. Hint: I used a glue stick to attach the felt to the aluminum cone. I thought this might be a problem however it works very well. Also, I can get it off using just a little solvent, water! so feel free to experiment with this mod. I might recomment it to anyone with this sub because you dont want your cone to ring like a bell.
I have the bass driver in a terribly poorly constructed box of three cubic feet. I intend to change that to around two in an attempt to get tighter bass. I will let winisd decide the proportions of the box for me. I am worried about having box sound but I refuse to go dipole. The point of this project was to have plenty of headroom with as little electronics as i can have. A simple two way instead of a two way and a sub or a three way. Plus stereo bass to boot. I don't have a problem with the top end though I am told it only extends flat to sixteen kilohertz. Is something wrong with my hearing?
I am absolutely dyeing to get a pair of these.
mono=suck
: ) Thanks for the help
But no pics as of late...
I made a 450hz horn of tractrix contour and it is just lovely. Using the 12 sub driver up to 500hz worried me a bit but I have since put felt over the dust cap. To my ears eliminated any "coneyness" which was apparent when listening to the driver by itself. Hint: I used a glue stick to attach the felt to the aluminum cone. I thought this might be a problem however it works very well. Also, I can get it off using just a little solvent, water! so feel free to experiment with this mod. I might recomment it to anyone with this sub because you dont want your cone to ring like a bell.
I have the bass driver in a terribly poorly constructed box of three cubic feet. I intend to change that to around two in an attempt to get tighter bass. I will let winisd decide the proportions of the box for me. I am worried about having box sound but I refuse to go dipole. The point of this project was to have plenty of headroom with as little electronics as i can have. A simple two way instead of a two way and a sub or a three way. Plus stereo bass to boot. I don't have a problem with the top end though I am told it only extends flat to sixteen kilohertz. Is something wrong with my hearing?
I am absolutely dyeing to get a pair of these.
mono=suck
: ) Thanks for the help
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