A poor man's Tannoy Arden (or similiar)

Hi,

I'm completely new here - and new to the art of building a speaker myself - so please be gentle:)

The repository of knowledge here is amazing but for a newbie it can be daunting to get any sort of overview.

So I hope it is OK to just start a thread and ask for advice.

Here's what I want to build: a big loudspeaker that is very easy to drive and that can fill a big space. My room is 70 m2 with a ceiling at 5 meters. I've been looking around after an original Tannoy Arden or even just some of those nice drivers they use, but it quickly becomes very expensive.

So I thought I'd ask the good people here at diyAudio how I could build a speaker that would approximate something like a Tannoy Arden or similar to fill my room and fit my amplifier. My amplifier is an Audio Note valve amp with 28 wpc.

So I'm looking for a nice pair of drivers. A 15" coaxial horn maybe? A crossover and a big cabinet.

Why coaxial? If for no other reason, because it looks cool. Also I imagine it is easier drill one whole in the baffle than two:)

The music I listen to is mostly electronic, dub techno, ambient, jazz, new classical, and a small dose of rock.

So how do I get started?
Should I buy new drivers and which?
Can I make the cabinet myself?

I hope you guys can point in the right direction.

Kind regards
Mads
 
Hi! Welcome, it is a fun hobby :)

If you are completely novice I suggest to look around suitable DIY kit that has all crossover included so you don't have to learn how to take measurements just yet and still get hands dirty.

I haven't looked what kits are available other than some plans in Finnish but I suspect there are many others if you search around.
Kaiutinrakennusohje Yksisilmaiset veljekset - hifi-PA-kaiuttimet Eminence Beta-8CX, Beta-10CX ja Beta-12CX -koaksiaalielementeista - AudioVideo
Kaiutinrakennusohje Piste - 8-, 12- ja 15-tuumaiset hifi-PA-koaksiaalit - AudioVideo

If you choose a kit, you can somewhat improvise on the enclosure as long as:
- the baffle dimensions are kept roughly the same
- driver position(s) on the baffle are kept roughly the same
- internal volume and possible reflex ports are kept roughly the same

as in the kit plan. Changing these too much might affect the performance so much you would have resort to measurements to be able to tune the system accordingly. Small variations, few centimeters here or there, with such big speaker doesn't change things much at all.

Don't be afraid of the "pro audio" drivers in the kits I linked to, they are very good quality and often cheaper than "hifi" drivers for similar performance. I'm not sure if there are any big coaxial drivers available on the hifi market so you kind of have to use PA drivers in this case. All big pro audio manufacturers have coaxial models available and while some of them are perhaps better than the others on some aspect they pretty much all work roughly the same because they are coaxials and the performance depends on the implementation.

Main advice is not to get too much into details until you know what questions to ask. And please ask when you have something to ask, that is the way to learn, and there are million questions to be found!:)

Answers to your first questions:
- how to get started: build a kit
- buy new drivers? for a kit you need specific drivers, can buy used or new. New is less of a gamble.
- can I make cabinet? Yes you can, you can possibly buy a "flat pack" for a kit, or ask lumber yard to cut plywood / mdf to size.

I have to add that assembling big boxes can be a hustle, but it is nothing too hard, everyone can do it with enough determination. Buy some glue, big clamps, glass of wine etc. Finishing is another big task but you could enjoy them with the wood finish. You'll learn a ton on every build so take it as so, keep high standards but don't be hard on yourself if you didn't quite meet the expectations on the first go :D The kits I linked are all very much fun, I've had the 12" eminence beta coaxials at some point and while they are very cheap and not the absolute best audio quality available I always had big smile on my face blasting them out :D

Most important thing is to have fun! if you find yourself in misery, have someone else to help you with the step :)
 
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You always have the big budget solution for that, an GPA 604 in an Altec 620 cabinet. But that is really big bucks (driver and crossover is about 2K per side). But as you are talking about the poor mans arden that won't be an option i think.

You could find other big coaxials, but most if not all are ment for p.a. use, not hifi use. The only other one that is ok for hifi is the Radian 5215B or 5212B, that is also very expensive (800€), It's often used in tannoy like cabinets.

On the more reasonable priced coaxials B&C (like those mentioned above) are the better ones but will need a custom crossover to fit hifi needs. And i don't know about ready designed cabinets for those. So it will takes skills that you as started don't have to do it.

Best is to build a kit. 28W can drive quiet a lot actually. I think anything above 90dB/2.83V/1m will be enough to fill that space to homeparty levels. Something like the Calpamos (found here: Humble Homemade Hifi - Archive) could be what you want, but you will have to buy the crossover from the site owner i think (or find the right schematic online).

Very cheap, but no real low bass (F6 is 45Hz) is the Fane 12-250TC in a sealed enclosure of 150L. If you put those against a wall it should give you decent bass for most music as long as you stay below 25w (at 98dB real sensivity). It can also be lower in a ported (i'm busy with a build like that) but no publishable plan for that yet so i can't tell if it works (is under construction).
 
I've had Ardens. The enclosures are so resonant you could strap them to your chest and use them as bass drums in a marching band, and the xover is minimally useful at best.

Try some of these.
14CXN88 Coaxials - B&C Speakers

The Arden i've seen and heared a lot was not like that. It was an 1970's model but with a restored cabinet (so i don't know how original it was). It was braced with an interna frame of beams and a plate in the middle front to back just under the driver. I don't know about the new Arden legacy altough. And the crossover is also rather complex. It's actually a rather good speaker for that type and time i think.
 
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I think the only option is to go PA drivers. I did a project with a Beta 8Cx from eminence before. The advantage/problem with the eminence series is they don't come with a matching tweeter so anything you want to stuff on it is possible, but on the other hand, it is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get...

The other PA drivers like the Faitalpro 12HX230 or any of the other PA driver manufacturer the probablility of the tweeter and woofer match well is higher in terms of directivity but it also means you can't change it. The directivity of the 12HX230 looks awesome. I am sure the usual suspects from B&C, BMS etc will have their own drivers that fit your bill
 
The Arden i've seen and heared a lot was not like that. It was an 1970's model but with a restored cabinet (so i don't know how original it was). It was braced with an interna frame of beams and a plate in the middle front to back just under the driver. I don't know about the new Arden legacy altough. And the crossover is also rather complex. It's actually a rather good speaker for that type and time i think.
My last one, I've had a couple as well as most of the Red/Gold/HPDs, was stock from the original owner. o bracing at all.

The drivers are good, but the old factory enclosure are terrible and the xovers, serviceable but easily improved.
 
Kits are pricey. Drivers & crossover parts & mdf sheet are not. You can get the straight cuts of an enclosure done at a home store, but the round holes you have to do yourself. A saber saw is ~$50 used or $100 new, routers are about the same price. You can draw a round hole with a compass or a string and a thumbtack. You can use cinder block, two toolboxes or two storage crates for a bench to prop the mdf up to make the cut. You'll need a drill for screw pilot holes. They are $40 used or $80 new. You'll need to do the cutting outside or in a dirty shop area.
I'm a fan of 15" + compression driver horn speakers. I auditioned some Peavey SP5 (12") and SP2(2004) (15") at the music store and found the bass much more satisfactory with the 15" driver. Both were dead accurate on the rest of the notes of the piano CD track I took there: Beethoven Appassionata Sonata. Steinway Bechstein or Bosendorf grand is a standard reference. Most speakers cannot make a sound like one. You can calibrate your ears to detect accuracy by listening to one of those brand pianos at a concert hall or church. Yamaha 3 m grands make the sound, but the baby grands sound cheap.
Hint, used Peavey SP2(2004) are going for <$300 each here now. I was also very happy with Peavey SP2-XT. The 2004 variety comes with a maximum harmonic distortion spec @ 5 watts, something I've seen on no other speaker.
Asathor is a driver plus horn speaker with a lot of recent activity on this forum.
Asathor - a JBL 4367 Clone
Since my $300 ea SP2-XT were stolen 2020, I decided to build something uglier with same capabilities. Used 2" Peavey RX22 horn drivers can be bought on ebay or gumtree. I bought a pair with the plastic horns for $180 with freight. Other competent compression drivers are discussed in this thread: House Concert Speakers - diyAudio
I prefer 2" nominal 1.4" throat drivers because I can't hear above 14.5 khz which is below where the Peavey SP2's stopped. Also crossing over at 1200 hz (SP2-XT) or 2000 hz (SP2(2004)) leads to less beaming of the midrange from the 15" woofer. The SP2-XT had charted response of -3 db on voice frequencies of 60 degrees.
Woofers 1508-8KADT woofers can still be bought from Peavey but are built now in a country causing a lot of trouble for the neighbors. Wanting 101 db 1w1m sensitivity like the SP2-XT, I bought eminence Deltapro-15A woofers which have 101.5 db sensitivity on an infinite wall. They can be in a sealed box like SP2-XT or ported like SP2(2004). The 1200 hz crossover limits the box to 300 w on pink noise since the tweeters are 70 w limited. For the 2004 version which is rated 500 w rms Peavey moved the crossover to 2000 hz. Both versions can go to 54 hz only -3 db. I'm going to try for 40 hz, since a 40 hz box is larger and can be cut down to the 54 hz box if the 40 hz box is a flop. I'll have to limit the wattage with 40 hz on 54 hz rated drivers, to limit Xmax violations. But I only intend to use 70 watts in my music room.
Measurement is not such a pain these days with free software and a PC with a line input port. Most laptops don't have a line in stereo phone plug hole, so I bought a new tower PC with one last month. Most old towers & desktop PC's do have one. Using audacity record software, I found my recordings accurate on my piano with Shure KSM27 mikes and a gigabyte main board. The Dell mainboard sounded okay, too. You'll need an omni mike they tell me for measurements. Also an open yard on a quiet day. Find a friend with a cow pasture and a long extension cord to the house. I own one, less the cows.
Happy shopping & building.
 
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Wow, thanks. What an amazing response from all of you. Thanks.

I've contacted a shop in Denmark that sells DIY parts. We're writing now about some 15" coaxial horns from B&C. The guy there is very helpful.

I'm pretty sure I won't go with a kit. I think I'll try to build a pair of big speakers from scratch. He'll help me with cabinet tuning and the crossover. And of course there's an unlimited knowledge base right here:)

Thanks so much. I'll report back as things progress....
 
I'm pretty sure I won't go with a kit. I think I'll try to build a pair of big speakers from scratch. He'll help me with cabinet tuning and the crossover. And of course there's an unlimited knowledge base right here:)
Even with a 15, I'd still make it a 3 way and keep as much midbass as possible out of the driver. My fave Tannoy build of my own was a Gold 15 with a JBL2242 below it coming in at 250Hz from memory. Active though.
 
I would definitely look into the new Eminence Kappalite coaxial series, perhaps especially the 12" looks interesting:
KAPPALITE™ KL3012CX-8 Coaxial Woofer - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker

I plan to buy it next year. Fit it with a nice 1" CD of your choice, Im sure the PSD2013S would work great.
It s a bit more costly than the Beta series thoughm which is a great alternative to start as first project; I have both the 10 and 12 versions and they are a lot of bang for buck (the Beta coaxials I mean, I dont know about the Kappalites yet as they are rather new).

Celestion have a nice coax range too I'm working on a 12" these days:
Yet another large coax build Celestion FTX1225 (ongoing, advice needed)


990795d1634405453-coax-build-celestion-ftx1225-ongoing-advice-celestion-coax-monitor-16-jpg



Tons of choices really: Faital, BMS, Beyma, B&C and the above mentioned will all provide lots of fun and easy build.
The Eminence I like especially due to the flexibility of screw-on tweeter but it might not perform as good as the more expensive alternatives.


Good luck!
 
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Maybe you're also interested in my Beta builds.
They look awful but sound pretty good IMHO.
I plan to clean up the looks when time allow it.

If you go with Beta 12CX make sure you make a bigger cabinet than I did to get full low end.
Of all of my builds I'm most happy with the Celestion 60l oak build though none of the projects are really finished - I tend to start a new one once bored.

Eminence Beta 10cx pine build
Eminence Beta 12CX/ASD1001 coaxial upgrade modification options?
 
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I haven't seen the outcome of your FTX build Fabricadetabaco: looks nice!
Edit: it is nice the FTX goes low enough in two ways. The 12" coax from p.a. origins i've heard/used are often shorts on low end by themself for my own preferences.

I share Brett's comment: my System800 sounds way better once ports are closed and xover at 250hz to a 15"( the lower way of my Technics SB-M1). Through DSP too.
 
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FTX goes low enough in two ways..
Well not sure about this just yet...

My wife is into RnB and she claims this new speaker of mine lacks a bit low end :)
In its defense I have yet to insulate it inside and the bassport is not tuned nor do I have any baffle step correction in my stock crossover its still bright sounding.

Too early to conclude, but I love its dynamics and presence and I plan to build a 18" sub anyway ;)
 
Hi Guys

I finished my speakers. They are HUGE. My wife has nervous ticks when she walks by them:)

I built them from 20mm MDF and the kids chose the colour.

So how do they sound? Big with huge dynamics. My tube amp is sadly missing in action so I have only tried them with a thin/clean sounding solid state amp combo (the Schiit Jotunheim 2 and the Schiit Vidar to which I've just used the DAC inside my Innuos Zen Mini MK3 streamer which is also edgy and thin) and lo and behold, they sound quite clinical. I will borrow a Quad Vena II in a couple of days to see if that will flesh out the sound.

I wanted to build the speaker from relatively cheap MDF to hear if it was worth pursuing. It absolutely is. Now I think I'll build a new, maybe slightly smaller, cabinet from nicer materials. Maybe bamboo, maybe birch.

I'm also thinking of a better crossover. Can I tune the speakers with the crossover or is that done with the cabinet and the drivers themselves?

Also, I built a mock-up of the Tannoy Arden, but now I'm thinking that a slightly smaller speaker without ports might be more to my liking.

I don't know if I mentioned this, but the coax drivers I'm using are the B&C 15CXB.

Thank you and kind regards

Mads