Very cool!
Planning on running it sealed with a subwoofer or ??? Looking forward to your testing of various compression drivers and how well they integrate with the ten. I have surrounds to build and looking at 6/8/10 inch coaxials so you are quite timely!
I would throw out paint them Vanta black so they have the 2D look---then tell me how to get some Vanta white....
Planning on running it sealed with a subwoofer or ??? Looking forward to your testing of various compression drivers and how well they integrate with the ten. I have surrounds to build and looking at 6/8/10 inch coaxials so you are quite timely!
I would throw out paint them Vanta black so they have the 2D look---then tell me how to get some Vanta white....
The box is not 100% yet, I plan to install a bass port but have not decided on wether to put it front or rear. Before doing that I want to try sealed just to see if I get any bass at all.
Some of you may have read my other Eminence 12CX thread a few weeks back where I bought a lot of HF drivers to try various combinations on both these coax basses.
CDs I have and plan to test out is:
Eminence APT50 (I plan to use this in a future three way system but want to try anyhow)
Eminence ASD1001 (I plan to use this in a future beta 8cx project starting as soon as this project is done)
Eminence PSD2002 (This one is currently my favorite with my recent beta 12cx project)
Selenium D220TI (This is the intended driver for this project, the beta 10cx)
I will at first try with the Eminence PXB2 2k5cx filter intended for this driver but may very well try to make my own once I buy some measuring tools and learn to measure.
If it sounds like I’m mad it’s true but I’ve decided to have DIY speakers in every room instead of bad plastic speakers from the mall mobile phone shop.
Edit: I have used pine in all my recent projects and I’m happy with it. 28mm and 18mm depending on size. In this project I have double front baffle 18mm, rest single 18mm no bracing other than the lists inside. Pine is very easy to work with but you need to drill every hole to avoid splints and cracks. Pine is a light and soft wood so some resonances you will get but I don’t mind. It gives character. Much like a guitar amp. Finally pine is easy to sand and stain for Ok results. I find the wood very alive as well, both the looks and feel of it. I would not use it for high end though.
Some of you may have read my other Eminence 12CX thread a few weeks back where I bought a lot of HF drivers to try various combinations on both these coax basses.
CDs I have and plan to test out is:
Eminence APT50 (I plan to use this in a future three way system but want to try anyhow)
Eminence ASD1001 (I plan to use this in a future beta 8cx project starting as soon as this project is done)
Eminence PSD2002 (This one is currently my favorite with my recent beta 12cx project)
Selenium D220TI (This is the intended driver for this project, the beta 10cx)
I will at first try with the Eminence PXB2 2k5cx filter intended for this driver but may very well try to make my own once I buy some measuring tools and learn to measure.
If it sounds like I’m mad it’s true but I’ve decided to have DIY speakers in every room instead of bad plastic speakers from the mall mobile phone shop.
Edit: I have used pine in all my recent projects and I’m happy with it. 28mm and 18mm depending on size. In this project I have double front baffle 18mm, rest single 18mm no bracing other than the lists inside. Pine is very easy to work with but you need to drill every hole to avoid splints and cracks. Pine is a light and soft wood so some resonances you will get but I don’t mind. It gives character. Much like a guitar amp. Finally pine is easy to sand and stain for Ok results. I find the wood very alive as well, both the looks and feel of it. I would not use it for high end though.
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No I lack that competence and those tools but will start to read what I need to get started soon as I want to make my own crossovers eventually for all these projects I’m doing. I always like to compare with something so I like to have some preassembled as well as cognitive bias tends to let you prefer what you made yourself even if it is a horrible assembly, I don’t always trust my ears as they seem to adapt very fast to the sound presented.
That's right, acoustic measurements is an important part of designing a louspeaker systems.
Don't trust your ears in absolute way, they get used to camouflage problems. And for theese cases we have here mesurement eqipments.
I'm interested in coaxial drivers, I have some KEF drivers (from Q350,Q15, kef Egg boxes), an I think I can say, they are doing well.
I'm think about buying 10CX drivers, but I'm little affraid of measuring performance of it. It's all about geometry between tweeter "baffle" and midbass membrane. If this is not enough smooth, uslually there are problems in frequency region about 6 - 12 kHz. Then also depends on tweeter driver of course. So I would be pleased If there'll be some measurements in the future. If I can, I will try to help you, with meas. stuff etc...
Good luck!
Maritn
Don't trust your ears in absolute way, they get used to camouflage problems. And for theese cases we have here mesurement eqipments.
I'm interested in coaxial drivers, I have some KEF drivers (from Q350,Q15, kef Egg boxes), an I think I can say, they are doing well.
I'm think about buying 10CX drivers, but I'm little affraid of measuring performance of it. It's all about geometry between tweeter "baffle" and midbass membrane. If this is not enough smooth, uslually there are problems in frequency region about 6 - 12 kHz. Then also depends on tweeter driver of course. So I would be pleased If there'll be some measurements in the future. If I can, I will try to help you, with meas. stuff etc...
Good luck!
Maritn
Thanks. I do have a DAC with XLR mic input so I can probably just buy a simple mic to have something to start with. I also have a DAW software program to record the DACs input, and further soft synths to simulate white noise pink noise, sine sweeps etc however ensuring 1 watt through my Rotel amp I have no idea how to do. I believe a pink noise sample will indicate the resonance peaks of my design though, for starters, and I can use the same for indicating the differences between the CDs with current crossovers (and with no crossover).
I do have one question regarding disconnecting any driver of a two way second order crossover. If no driver is connected on either of the HPF or LPF that circuit will infact be a parallell band pass, ie a band stop for the other driver?
I do have one question regarding disconnecting any driver of a two way second order crossover. If no driver is connected on either of the HPF or LPF that circuit will infact be a parallell band pass, ie a band stop for the other driver?
I can recommend you:
Acoustics mesurements-software:
REW which is very usable and intuitive for use
HOLMimpulse this software is bit outdated and in my case doesn't work well in Windows 10, but still good tool, I'm using it only for summing nearfield response of woofer and port.
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Crosover, baffle, box & etc. design:
VituixCAD I think when you know it, you'll like it. Kimmo did an excellent job here!
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Acoustics measuremnts-hardware:
Focusrite 2i2 great performance at this price. In this case, you can use your interface with XLR imputs, depends on, what mic you'll use. Do you have +48V phantom power on it? And what about SNR of preamps? Is it OK?
Dayton EMM-6 I'm using this one. Basic but usable, I prefer XLR connection instead of USB variant. For this meas. mic you need +48 phantom power.
Acoustics mesurements-software:
REW which is very usable and intuitive for use
HOLMimpulse this software is bit outdated and in my case doesn't work well in Windows 10, but still good tool, I'm using it only for summing nearfield response of woofer and port.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crosover, baffle, box & etc. design:
VituixCAD I think when you know it, you'll like it. Kimmo did an excellent job here!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Acoustics measuremnts-hardware:
Focusrite 2i2 great performance at this price. In this case, you can use your interface with XLR imputs, depends on, what mic you'll use. Do you have +48V phantom power on it? And what about SNR of preamps? Is it OK?
Dayton EMM-6 I'm using this one. Basic but usable, I prefer XLR connection instead of USB variant. For this meas. mic you need +48 phantom power.
for one reference, you can see measurements (and if curious "ask" for the crossover schematic") of Mike Chua's "Osprey II" Beta10cx project.
Osprey-II Revisited (Eminence 10CX with Selenium D220ti) – AmpsLab
Osprey-II Revisited (Eminence 10CX with Selenium D220ti) – AmpsLab
freddi, thanks for references.
It's pity there is only on-axis measurement, is very useful know off-axis (for example 10 deg steps) behaviour, to say how "good" is 10CX in comparation with other speakers. Then you have input data to create polar graph in horizontal & vertical plane (VituixCAD).
In on-axis measurements of Osprey II, we can see notches at 6,8;12;15 kHz and I'm not shure, but I suppose, there'll be no difference with another tweeter driver. Question is, if it will be audible and if is it real problem for listening music. 6,5" Driver from KEF Q350 is on this side much better (geomerty of tweeter in midbass waveguide).
It's pity there is only on-axis measurement, is very useful know off-axis (for example 10 deg steps) behaviour, to say how "good" is 10CX in comparation with other speakers. Then you have input data to create polar graph in horizontal & vertical plane (VituixCAD).
In on-axis measurements of Osprey II, we can see notches at 6,8;12;15 kHz and I'm not shure, but I suppose, there'll be no difference with another tweeter driver. Question is, if it will be audible and if is it real problem for listening music. 6,5" Driver from KEF Q350 is on this side much better (geomerty of tweeter in midbass waveguide).
The thing with a big coaxial driver is not the evenness of the frequency response but the large scale presention, it really is something special and different to a small coax (or any speaker with small drivers)
I am currently working on a near field monitor with 12cx with apt50 and i am so far impressed. I have a pair of 10cx also to try for a slightly smaller closed box, 75 liter vs 150 liter
I am currently working on a near field monitor with 12cx with apt50 and i am so far impressed. I have a pair of 10cx also to try for a slightly smaller closed box, 75 liter vs 150 liter
I agree that big coax is something special. I cannot put a word on it and I used to think it was just the Tannoy drivers magic until I discovered it was quite common in PA and studio mains for decades, so that’s why I’m playing around with Eminence before I go up in price and complexity I consider this training. I have played with 12cx for a year now and it just sounds very musical and engaging, though with some bumps here and there I can live with for now, and correct with DSP/active eq later.
Celef,
I don't understand this large scale stuff you're talking about? If a speaker throws a larger soundstage, normally it has blooming in lower voice range?
I can get that with DSP in a small driver also but with less output of course
i can not explain why it sounds this way, maybe it is a sensoric thing, maybe the much larger moving cone area pushes air molecules in a different pattern which can be sensed, maybe the narrower dispersion isolate the speaker more from room distortion, i do not know
i have no problem with the uneven response since i have my speakers aligned so i listen off axis, i have much crossover work left to do but i think so far the sound resolution is much less then i am used to
FWIW I ran Beta10CX in: "Karlsonator12", -.62X K15, and Karlson K12 - all IIRC with ASD1001. The xover for the Karlsonator and scaled Karlson used Eminence's 2K5cx values. Apparent resolution was "low". I liked the sound better with Karlson K12 and Eminence's old generic 3K5 network (maybe 0.85mH/10uF ? lowpass and 4uF/0.33mH/12uF highpass.
Mike Chua said his goal was getting clear vocals. I think success or not hinges on the lowpass network.
Here's the original Osprey write-up. Graph smoothing is heavier so don't know now !0CX's horn with Peavey RX14 directly compared to the Selenium/JBL driver - but I made a graph of it too - vs a little round horn ~like Eminence's APT80 - see below
Osprey - Eminence Beta 10CX Coxial
Mike Chua said his goal was getting clear vocals. I think success or not hinges on the lowpass network.
Here's the original Osprey write-up. Graph smoothing is heavier so don't know now !0CX's horn with Peavey RX14 directly compared to the Selenium/JBL driver - but I made a graph of it too - vs a little round horn ~like Eminence's APT80 - see below
Osprey - Eminence Beta 10CX Coxial
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