Hello. I’m building a 20 seca amplifier and am going to need to do some suitable speakers. I’m hoping to find a well tested 2 way design or kit, horn or more conventional designs are equally interesting. My room is small, I’d like to get down to 50hz. I was looking at the frugal horn but I’m not convinced that the broad range driver approach will work for me.
If anyone is aware of any designs along these lines I’d be grateful for a steer.
Thanks. Kris
If anyone is aware of any designs along these lines I’d be grateful for a steer.
Thanks. Kris
Hi Kris,
look at the pispeakers:
Pi Speakers - unmatched quality and state-of-the-art performance
Wayne is extremly helpful and you get the plans for free.
All the drivers are easy to get in Europe.
Frank
look at the pispeakers:
Pi Speakers - unmatched quality and state-of-the-art performance
Wayne is extremly helpful and you get the plans for free.
All the drivers are easy to get in Europe.
Frank
If you are unsure about Frugal horns, firstly you need to listen to some in a similar sized room.
If you are still unsure after listening to the Frugal horns my first thought would be some Heybrook HB1's or JPW P series from Ebay. These are a paper 8" woofer and 19mm or 25mm tweeter in a sealed cabinet.
Failing that Wilmslow audio offer a kit that follows the original design, but it probably will be more expensive than the Ebay route and will involve the assembly of the kit.
If you can find some HB1's with rotted woofer surrounds at a sensible price that would give you a cabinet and an additional £180 would buy you a pair of replacement Vifa woofers. They will be loud enough in a small room with 20W class A driving them. Possibly they could be too big for the room.
If they are too big, you would need to give us a clue as to what commercial loudspeaker you think might fit and then people will offer their suggestions for suitable designs.
If you are still unsure after listening to the Frugal horns my first thought would be some Heybrook HB1's or JPW P series from Ebay. These are a paper 8" woofer and 19mm or 25mm tweeter in a sealed cabinet.
Failing that Wilmslow audio offer a kit that follows the original design, but it probably will be more expensive than the Ebay route and will involve the assembly of the kit.
If you can find some HB1's with rotted woofer surrounds at a sensible price that would give you a cabinet and an additional £180 would buy you a pair of replacement Vifa woofers. They will be loud enough in a small room with 20W class A driving them. Possibly they could be too big for the room.
If they are too big, you would need to give us a clue as to what commercial loudspeaker you think might fit and then people will offer their suggestions for suitable designs.
These look excellent, thank you. The 4pi looks about right for my room.
Have you built some?
Yes,
i have build these with jbl woofer and b&c tweeter.
I like it very much with my Sunaudio 2a3 amplifier which have 3.5watt.
Very tranparent and smooth speakers and the bass response is enough for me in a 16qm2 room.
Ask in the pispeakers forum about the plans:
AudioRoundTable.com: Pi Speakers
Frank
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. My room is about 5m x 3.5 m. Floor to ceiling is about 2.3 m. I’m leaning towards a horn design on grounds of efficiency, but also because I’ve never used one. The frugel horn sounds very interesting and I was close to buying a flat pal but I’m put off by the apparent lack of available measurements validating the design. Not harshing on the frugel horn at all, but I know that any speaker I make will have to compare well to my existing speakers which are very good indeed. Are you aware of any measurements of the frugel horn?
People have taken their own in-room measurements, but they don't necessarily carry across in detail for obvious reasons. If you're asking for anechoic measurements, no. I have them, but they're only of value to muggins here, who designed them. There's a reason for that. The FH series are boundary loaded (1/8 or 1/4 space loading) horns, so asking for anechoic / quasi-anechoic measurements is in effect asking to see the measured output with the last part of the horn expansion missing. You can cart portable examples of such speakers (like the FH series) into an anechoic chamber, or outside and take a ground-plane of course, but since the front wall or corner, which with the floor forms the final part of the horn, is not present, the measurement is not representative of the actual designed behaviour. This not only affects the gain on the low end, but the overall gain BW, and the shape and rate of the acoustic low pass.
Last edited:
Understood, that’s very interesting. I’m a technical layperson but I’d be interested to know how horn designers go about predicting how a horn will behave in various settings-do you model that in software?
All the best,
Kris
I suspect it'd be possible to simulate in Hornresp, if you were to get creative.
FWIW, I'd recommend the Faital Pro 10HX230. I'm using them as PA speakers, but they've impressed me for HiFi use. Put them in a floor-standing ML-TL and you'll get a useful amount of low bass.
Of course, rooms factor in strongly - I'd recommend the purchase of some measurement gear.
Chris
FWIW, I'd recommend the Faital Pro 10HX230. I'm using them as PA speakers, but they've impressed me for HiFi use. Put them in a floor-standing ML-TL and you'll get a useful amount of low bass.
Of course, rooms factor in strongly - I'd recommend the purchase of some measurement gear.
Chris
I could have sworn I'd written something, but had to go to the plague-factory that was the local Asda so can't have posted. Social distancing there was none, but there were a lot of idiots, to the point it felt like a suicide run.
It depends. A boundary loaded design is typically created (well, it is by me anyway) by designing an expansion profile that incorporates the room boundaries in a given position if it's a fixed enclosure, or in a series of different positions if it's a generic design that will be used in a modest variety of situations. Software modelling saves a huge amount of time in this sense -it's not perfect and it can't design the / a speaker for you, but it gives you a very good head-start. Generally speaking, a sensible policy for generic designs (i.e. those not intended for a specific room or system) is to develop it in such a way as that it will be tolerant of a modest range of positions, just as you would any other practical enclosure, so you maintain a reasonably linear output and acoustic low-pass. The latter is often overlooked but is very important in keeping GD low.
It depends. A boundary loaded design is typically created (well, it is by me anyway) by designing an expansion profile that incorporates the room boundaries in a given position if it's a fixed enclosure, or in a series of different positions if it's a generic design that will be used in a modest variety of situations. Software modelling saves a huge amount of time in this sense -it's not perfect and it can't design the / a speaker for you, but it gives you a very good head-start. Generally speaking, a sensible policy for generic designs (i.e. those not intended for a specific room or system) is to develop it in such a way as that it will be tolerant of a modest range of positions, just as you would any other practical enclosure, so you maintain a reasonably linear output and acoustic low-pass. The latter is often overlooked but is very important in keeping GD low.
I am in a similar boat to Phorize though, having built and enjoyed a few sets of full-range/WAW speakers, including some P10 dMarKens, I'm a few steps farther down the high-efficiency path.
I've been looking to try something different and have been considering the 4 Pis. Your endorsement gives me more confidence to try them out.
They aren't "up & running" again just yet, and are probably delayed by the pandemic, but this is another source of higher efficient designs that are kits:
Site Updates
..scroll down here to see the designs:
DIY SOUND GROUP
Site Updates
..scroll down here to see the designs:
DIY SOUND GROUP
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.