Hello all...
I am not new to speaker design but I am no pro either!
I was given some interesting brand new and some used speakers, and in the lot, two brand spanking new HiVi F10
So in orders to design a ported enclosure I went to different online box calculator and found that the results of these calculators are quite different!
The problem I see is that those online calculators don't tell you what alignement and type of curve they are aiming for.
Has anyone here have some experience with the F10?
The Fs is 30hZ and so is F3 and Fb (31Hz) but most of the calculators ends up with a Fr of 49Hz and up.
There is something I don't get here...
I would like these to handle the bass up to about 200hZ and I understand that it can come a bit on the big side but I have the space.
Any idea, comment, suggestion?
Thanks, Luc
I am not new to speaker design but I am no pro either!
I was given some interesting brand new and some used speakers, and in the lot, two brand spanking new HiVi F10
So in orders to design a ported enclosure I went to different online box calculator and found that the results of these calculators are quite different!
The problem I see is that those online calculators don't tell you what alignement and type of curve they are aiming for.
Has anyone here have some experience with the F10?
The Fs is 30hZ and so is F3 and Fb (31Hz) but most of the calculators ends up with a Fr of 49Hz and up.
There is something I don't get here...
I would like these to handle the bass up to about 200hZ and I understand that it can come a bit on the big side but I have the space.
Any idea, comment, suggestion?
Thanks, Luc
Solen's web site has 3 different alignments for that woofer.
Woofer application
I have the HiVi W10 woofer in a 60L enclosure and the frequency response is very close to what is listed in the table.
Woofer application
I have the HiVi W10 woofer in a 60L enclosure and the frequency response is very close to what is listed in the table.
Thanks CNAU, I have been looking for this chart on the Solens site for a while!
But now I am a bit confused, the alignments suggested are 35,23 or 29 litres.
You mentionned that you are using a 60 litres enclosure, which is not listed and yet you have a very close response to the solens chart.
Can you expand on this?
I have the space for 60 litres but If I can make the box 30 litres without compromise in the bass end then I'll go smaller!
By the way, the manufacturer recommand a 63 (or so) litres box but does not state the size of the port.
I found a few online calculator by googling "Online speaker enclosure calculator"
This is the one that gives me 'strange' results Speaker Box Enclosure Designer / Calculator
But it is very informative on many aspect and also it helps figuring the plans for a cut sheet!
this one is German but writen in English, I have not tried it yet but it seems quite complete...Strassacker: Calculators for speaker building
I also found an interesting online enclosure calculator where at first blush, the results seems to better corelate with the suggested manufacturer dimensions. WinISD at: WinISD - Linearteam And I think many guys here trust this calculator...
I will research some more today and buy some plywood tommorow... this will be my weekend project!
Here's a link to the manufacturer's data sheet
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/297-450-hi-vi-f10-specifications-45088.pdf
For some reason, I don't see Sd on the mfr's data sheet, but PE states it as 363 cm^2.
For Vb = 60 Liters, you can tune with a 4" x 13.5" port to get fb = 31 Hz.
You might be able to use a 3" flared port and make it shorter. Don't have a calculator for that (flared ends) handy. Maybe WINISD has that capability?
For smaller boxes, vent length grows to tune that low, or else you settle for higher fb and shorter vent length. You can run simulations to find a compromise that suits you.
Dave
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/297-450-hi-vi-f10-specifications-45088.pdf
For some reason, I don't see Sd on the mfr's data sheet, but PE states it as 363 cm^2.
For Vb = 60 Liters, you can tune with a 4" x 13.5" port to get fb = 31 Hz.
You might be able to use a 3" flared port and make it shorter. Don't have a calculator for that (flared ends) handy. Maybe WINISD has that capability?
For smaller boxes, vent length grows to tune that low, or else you settle for higher fb and shorter vent length. You can run simulations to find a compromise that suits you.
Dave
I have the W10 not the F10 woofer. Different parameters and difference box sizes as per Solen table.
You probably know this already but as you go to bigger boxes transient response suffers. The F10 seems to be designed for smaller enclosures. Never hurts though to go bigger as you can always fill the space if you need to.
For all my speaker builds (only 3!) I used various length of ABS pipe (cheap) which I friction fit into the box. Later they can be glued. Seems to me it is very important to be able to do this to get the right tune for your room.
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I am learning! I'm learning!
So it seems I will go for a hybrid alignement! (uh-oh! this is where we get in troubles!!
I just spent a few interesting hour fudging with WinISD and my current conclusion, which may change , is to go for a vented port enclosure of 50 litre, tuned to 35hz.
According to the curve generated, this is where I end up with a port of very reasonable area and lenght, a mild bump at raisonance of about 3 db, -F3 is at about 35hz and -F6 at 30hz and then the slope is the usual 24db/octave.
Since I intend to use a MiniDSP to drive the whole system I can apply a steep hi-pass filter before the amp and never run in the speaker getting unloaded, or so I hope!
My compromise in this design is extended bass versus a somewhatuced bass articulation and transients...
The proof of the pudding will be in building it and give it a critical "trompe d'eustache" !
This project is the first part of the system.
I intend to use this speaker up until 200Hz or so.
I envision the next 4 octave (200 to about 3K5hz) to go trough a single speaker, and the remaining spectrum to a tweeter via a passive cross-over.
But at this stage these are just ideas thrown in the broth!
This is fun!
So it seems I will go for a hybrid alignement! (uh-oh! this is where we get in troubles!!
I just spent a few interesting hour fudging with WinISD and my current conclusion, which may change , is to go for a vented port enclosure of 50 litre, tuned to 35hz.
According to the curve generated, this is where I end up with a port of very reasonable area and lenght, a mild bump at raisonance of about 3 db, -F3 is at about 35hz and -F6 at 30hz and then the slope is the usual 24db/octave.
Since I intend to use a MiniDSP to drive the whole system I can apply a steep hi-pass filter before the amp and never run in the speaker getting unloaded, or so I hope!
My compromise in this design is extended bass versus a somewhatuced bass articulation and transients...
The proof of the pudding will be in building it and give it a critical "trompe d'eustache" !
This project is the first part of the system.
I intend to use this speaker up until 200Hz or so.
I envision the next 4 octave (200 to about 3K5hz) to go trough a single speaker, and the remaining spectrum to a tweeter via a passive cross-over.
But at this stage these are just ideas thrown in the broth!
This is fun!
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OK!
I just got back from walking the dogs.
his is when I get very zen and relaxed and where I get my best ideas...
I will complete the detailed calculations this evening and I will get to it this weekend.
Hopefully, I should start testing sometimes this week ( I am semi retired)
Luc
A little up on my endeavour...
I ended with 65 litres enclosure, alowing 5 litres or so for panel reinforcement, the port volume etc..
This time, since it will be purely a functional system, I decided to go with baltic birch plywood (3/4") for the construction as don't realy care for the aestethics. It will simply sanded with 120 grit and painted grey or black.
I am building an enclosure for the bass and nother one for the mid/highs.
Now for the mid and higs unit I found that my regular go to shop is closing their speaker department!
I and another client, and the store manager seems to be the last of the mohicans in this hobby. So he made me a very good deal on (4X) Silver Flute 16 ohms 6.5" woofer/mid.
My intentention, at this time, is to use a minidsp crossover and biamplification for the bass and the rest (200hz xover) and passive 12db/oct LR crossover fort the mid/highs.
I will probably roll my own inductors and I have used some online calculators for the xover design and here is this question that now pop in my head!
Right now I use this calculator: 2-Way Crossover Calculator / Designer
It ask you the speaker impedance and crossover point and calculates the caps and coils required.
In this case I am contemplating 4,5 or 5kHz point.
I want to wind my own coil and wonder now how I should measure these coils?
I have access to a nice LCR meter but I presume I must measure these coils at the crossover frequencies?
for ex: if the calculator recommand say 0.57mH for the bass section, I should measure the L value at the crossever F (in this case 4,500hZ) ?
I ended with 65 litres enclosure, alowing 5 litres or so for panel reinforcement, the port volume etc..
This time, since it will be purely a functional system, I decided to go with baltic birch plywood (3/4") for the construction as don't realy care for the aestethics. It will simply sanded with 120 grit and painted grey or black.
I am building an enclosure for the bass and nother one for the mid/highs.
Now for the mid and higs unit I found that my regular go to shop is closing their speaker department!
I and another client, and the store manager seems to be the last of the mohicans in this hobby. So he made me a very good deal on (4X) Silver Flute 16 ohms 6.5" woofer/mid.
My intentention, at this time, is to use a minidsp crossover and biamplification for the bass and the rest (200hz xover) and passive 12db/oct LR crossover fort the mid/highs.
I will probably roll my own inductors and I have used some online calculators for the xover design and here is this question that now pop in my head!
Right now I use this calculator: 2-Way Crossover Calculator / Designer
It ask you the speaker impedance and crossover point and calculates the caps and coils required.
In this case I am contemplating 4,5 or 5kHz point.
I want to wind my own coil and wonder now how I should measure these coils?
I have access to a nice LCR meter but I presume I must measure these coils at the crossover frequencies?
for ex: if the calculator recommand say 0.57mH for the bass section, I should measure the L value at the crossever F (in this case 4,500hZ) ?
Looking at the response curves for the 4 and 8 ohm versions, the break up is right about 5 kHz. You might be pushing them to cross over at 4 kHz, but if possible, I'd shoot for closer to 3 or 3.5 kHz at most.
https://hificompass.com/sites/default/files/documents/silverflute.pdf
The inductance of voice coils on a moving loudspeaker will vary with frequency. But for a fixed inductor coil in the crossover, it should be fairly constant, regardless of frequency. An LCR meter will do just fine.
https://hificompass.com/sites/default/files/documents/silverflute.pdf
The inductance of voice coils on a moving loudspeaker will vary with frequency. But for a fixed inductor coil in the crossover, it should be fairly constant, regardless of frequency. An LCR meter will do just fine.
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