Don't overestimate my 'knowledge'
Which coaxial doesn't have a jumpy response?
The innards of coaxials are epic centres of interferences.
hehehe
i only compare it to bms 4594 (as posted above).
b&c and BMS are on my hit list for September.
For comparison: DCX464 predecessors, DCM50 and DCX50.
Left: Raw response of the DCM50 (single composite paper cone shaped diaphram) without horn
Right: Raw response of the tweeter section of the DCX50 (same mid diaphram + Mylar
tweeter diaphragm) without horn.
Left: Raw response of the DCM50 (single composite paper cone shaped diaphram) without horn
Right: Raw response of the tweeter section of the DCX50 (same mid diaphram + Mylar
tweeter diaphragm) without horn.
Attachments
Got some tests in today, dcx464 vs 4594HE on xt1464.
All tests at about 3 meters off deck outside.
First graph is on-axis. dcx traces are blues, bms green and orange.
Next are mid-section horizontal polars. 10 deg increments. dcx on top, bms below.
Last are high-section polars, same as above.
All tests at about 3 meters off deck outside.
First graph is on-axis. dcx traces are blues, bms green and orange.
Next are mid-section horizontal polars. 10 deg increments. dcx on top, bms below.
Last are high-section polars, same as above.
Attachments
1) Thank you
2) What was the smoothing, mark?
DCX464 looks definitely much better regarding the MF + HF integration, like a piece of cake, compared to BMS coaxials (a nightmare).
With my limited knowledge it seems good to me too.
Since I saw the specs I was wondering about the top end. The 17-18k fall...
(Even though my ears probably go up to 14k in my dreams. Heheh)
Hi guys, a little more info...
First, smoothing was 1/6 for big picture clarity, and I should have talked a bit more about measuring conditions. (Tried to add via edit but was too late, busy since.)
Like said, outdoor measurements away from deck into a mic on a boom 3m away.
Wind was up enough to make VHF a bit of a problem....along with a host of circadas singing, boats going by and waves hitting the rip-rap.
Not the best of conditions but I've found with 1-2sec averaging still beats indoors by a mile.
Mabat, i sure agree the dcx MF + HF integration looks sooo much easier.
That said, I've found I can cross the 4594 at 6300 no problems... i just don't try to go any higher or lower !
Oh, another cool thing about the dcx....appears there is no timing offset to contend with between MF + HF....unlike the .06ms in the bms (on 1464)
daemonsgr, I can't hear much if any above 14k either...but I would like to chase bats away
Attached is some of this morning's playing around.
I got tired of messing with a synergy prototype, and put the dcx464 back on the xt1464, to do my standard on-axis tune job, and then see how it holds up off axis. Conditions were about the same as described, maybe a little better.
The yellow on-axis trace is FIR corrected and crossing at 3200Hz, 16th order LR. High passed at 500Hz, 16th LR . 1/12th smoothing. 1 sec averaging.
Then 10 degree increments using a spinorama.
Don't pay too much attention above 16kHz, wind...you can see the lack of coherence in the red trace above the SPL curves.
Now, I'm gonna quit measuring for a bit, and mate the 464/1464 combo to a single 12",....time to give a listen
edit: scratch the no timing offset comment...had .08ms delay in place ugh
First, smoothing was 1/6 for big picture clarity, and I should have talked a bit more about measuring conditions. (Tried to add via edit but was too late, busy since.)
Like said, outdoor measurements away from deck into a mic on a boom 3m away.
Wind was up enough to make VHF a bit of a problem....along with a host of circadas singing, boats going by and waves hitting the rip-rap.
Not the best of conditions but I've found with 1-2sec averaging still beats indoors by a mile.
Mabat, i sure agree the dcx MF + HF integration looks sooo much easier.
That said, I've found I can cross the 4594 at 6300 no problems... i just don't try to go any higher or lower !
Oh, another cool thing about the dcx....appears there is no timing offset to contend with between MF + HF....unlike the .06ms in the bms (on 1464)
daemonsgr, I can't hear much if any above 14k either...but I would like to chase bats away
Attached is some of this morning's playing around.
I got tired of messing with a synergy prototype, and put the dcx464 back on the xt1464, to do my standard on-axis tune job, and then see how it holds up off axis. Conditions were about the same as described, maybe a little better.
The yellow on-axis trace is FIR corrected and crossing at 3200Hz, 16th order LR. High passed at 500Hz, 16th LR . 1/12th smoothing. 1 sec averaging.
Then 10 degree increments using a spinorama.
Don't pay too much attention above 16kHz, wind...you can see the lack of coherence in the red trace above the SPL curves.
Now, I'm gonna quit measuring for a bit, and mate the 464/1464 combo to a single 12",....time to give a listen
edit: scratch the no timing offset comment...had .08ms delay in place ugh
Attachments
Last edited:
Hi guys, a little more info...
First, smoothing was 1/6 for big picture clarity, and I should have talked a bit more about measuring conditions. (Tried to add via edit but was too late, busy since.)
Like said, outdoor measurements away from deck into a mic on a boom 3m away.
Wind was up enough to make VHF a bit of a problem....along with a host of circadas singing, boats going by and waves hitting the rip-rap.
Not the best of conditions but I've found with 1-2sec averaging still beats indoors by a mile.
Mabat, i sure agree the dcx MF + HF integration looks sooo much easier.
That said, I've found I can cross the 4594 at 6300 no problems... i just don't try to go any higher or lower !
Oh, another cool thing about the dcx....appears there is no timing offset to contend with between MF + HF....unlike the .06ms in the bms (on 1464)
daemonsgr, I can't hear much if any above 14k either...but I would like to chase bats away
Attached is some of this morning's playing around.
I got tired of messing with a synergy prototype, and put the dcx464 back on the xt1464, to do my standard on-axis tune job, and then see how it holds up off axis. Conditions were about the same as described, maybe a little better.
The yellow on-axis trace is FIR corrected and crossing at 3200Hz, 16th order LR. High passed at 500Hz, 16th LR . 1/12th smoothing. 1 sec averaging.
Then 10 degree increments using a spinorama.
Don't pay too much attention above 16kHz, wind...you can see the lack of coherence in the red trace above the SPL curves.
Now, I'm gonna quit measuring for a bit, and mate the 464/1464 combo to a single 12",....time to give a listen
edit: scratch the no timing offset comment...had .08ms delay in place ugh
Heehhe is all about psychoacoustics hehehe I like looking at my speakers too!!
Btw how is the sound? Quality? Etc. I want them for hifi of course.
Thnx
DCX464 under the skin
https://i.postimg.cc/RFjk6B15/62531740-2865564056793522-4110106414611955712-n.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/RFjk6B15/62531740-2865564056793522-4110106414611955712-n.jpg
Getting there, hope to listen in another hour or so....
No point listening until in tune..... ime/imo.....
Hey Blossom,
I'm not really sure how to answer your question, since power handling doesn't vary much with frequency in a compression driver.
These prices are very weird!!
Dcx and 4594HE have the same price in EU.
UK is 500gbp for one.
Edit: non HE is cheaper.
with 4594he from UK, 1.23 exchange, =$610
dcx464 from France, 1.11 exchange, = $436
Best prices I know of anyway ...
Pretty compelling case for the B&C price wise for sure...
Doing some listening finally
Using the on-axis tuning below, that added a single rcf 12" mb12n405 to get down to 100Hz, to tie to sub (not shown).
(I tilt that flat line curve to taste, to the usual downward sloping curve prefered by most, (including me)).
First thing I immediately noticed, was that the 12" sounded hollow. I kinda remembered hearing the same sound when i tried the bms at lower frequencies than with my normal 650Hz crossover point (with the xt1464 or HF950 horns).
So I reworked the crossover between the 12" and the dcx from 500Hz to 650Hz...
plus this lets me compare more apples to apples to the bms, with the zillion songs I've heard crossed at 650Hz.....
Much better...maybe this horn just ain't meant to run lower...
Really beautiful, dynamic sound. Pleasure.
I guess the only quick observation I can hazard at this point vs the bms, is that the high freq end of the dcx might be a little smoother. Won't know for sure till I do some serious SPL crankin
Oh and one ergo thing I love about the dcx464...is not having the damn HF terminals stick straight out the dang back, always in the way ...
Using the on-axis tuning below, that added a single rcf 12" mb12n405 to get down to 100Hz, to tie to sub (not shown).
(I tilt that flat line curve to taste, to the usual downward sloping curve prefered by most, (including me)).
First thing I immediately noticed, was that the 12" sounded hollow. I kinda remembered hearing the same sound when i tried the bms at lower frequencies than with my normal 650Hz crossover point (with the xt1464 or HF950 horns).
So I reworked the crossover between the 12" and the dcx from 500Hz to 650Hz...
plus this lets me compare more apples to apples to the bms, with the zillion songs I've heard crossed at 650Hz.....
Much better...maybe this horn just ain't meant to run lower...
Really beautiful, dynamic sound. Pleasure.
I guess the only quick observation I can hazard at this point vs the bms, is that the high freq end of the dcx might be a little smoother. Won't know for sure till I do some serious SPL crankin
Oh and one ergo thing I love about the dcx464...is not having the damn HF terminals stick straight out the dang back, always in the way ...
Attachments
I guess the only quick observation I can hazard at this point vs the bms, is that the high freq end of the dcx might be a little smoother. Won't know for sure till I do some serious SPL crankin
This was to be expected as well, despite the less than stellar response.
I wonder how the DCX would perform behind a low Fc horn.
Mark100, do you happen to have a single diaphragm driver (preferably a FaitalPro
) at hand for comparison?
Last edited:
Doing some listening finally
Using the on-axis tuning below, that added a single rcf 12" mb12n405 to get down to 100Hz, to tie to sub (not shown).
(I tilt that flat line curve to taste, to the usual downward sloping curve prefered by most, (including me)).
First thing I immediately noticed, was that the 12" sounded hollow. I kinda remembered hearing the same sound when i tried the bms at lower frequencies than with my normal 650Hz crossover point (with the xt1464 or HF950 horns).
So I reworked the crossover between the 12" and the dcx from 500Hz to 650Hz...
plus this lets me compare more apples to apples to the bms, with the zillion songs I've heard crossed at 650Hz.....
Much better...maybe this horn just ain't meant to run lower...
Really beautiful, dynamic sound. Pleasure.
I guess the only quick observation I can hazard at this point vs the bms, is that the high freq end of the dcx might be a little smoother. Won't know for sure till I do some serious SPL crankin
Oh and one ergo thing I love about the dcx464...is not having the damn HF terminals stick straight out the dang back, always in the way ...
Maybe its diyaudio bread and butter but whats the measurements? (Software hardware i mean) you use active here?