No I have no issues at all using 2216 and M2 waveguide 2 way.
Rob
what happens when you play 30hz and 700hz tones at the same time at volume? Can you try to find some type of breaking point? What type of bass load...can you be our guinea pig for a hot second lol!
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FWIW I have 10Hz to 20KHz through the same drivers and it is the best speaker I have heard or built and there is no breaking point due to IMD. I am sure if I measured IMD it would look terrible. If IMD was a significant factor this speaker would sound broken and it does not.
It makes good engineering sense to reduce it as much as possible without compromising anything else, but to focus on it as a significant issue flies in the face of a lot of perception research from reliable sources.
It makes good engineering sense to reduce it as much as possible without compromising anything else, but to focus on it as a significant issue flies in the face of a lot of perception research from reliable sources.
I think that Dr Geddes' point is that IMD is not audible under realistic conditions and to get to the point where it is actually considerable, other linear issues would have become much more crucial audibility wise. There is a paper with a top level approach (i.e. IMD correlated with blind tests audibility) where Dr Geddes supports the above claim.
On the other hand, there are numerous papers where IMD is approached with more fundamental, bottom-to-top approach physics wise (for a lack of a more accurate description) that claim that, IMD is indeed important. However, i have found none that shows correlation with audibility with carefully devised blind tests.
I think describing the midrange of a 5" driver as laughable is a bit overaggressive and elitist. I highly doubt that a renowned OEM builder like Strauss (pictured example) would gamble its reputation with a laughable speaker in his line.
On the other hand, there are numerous papers where IMD is approached with more fundamental, bottom-to-top approach physics wise (for a lack of a more accurate description) that claim that, IMD is indeed important. However, i have found none that shows correlation with audibility with carefully devised blind tests.
I think describing the midrange of a 5" driver as laughable is a bit overaggressive and elitist. I highly doubt that a renowned OEM builder like Strauss (pictured example) would gamble its reputation with a laughable speaker in his line.
Hi fluid, wow....10Hz to 20kHz, same drivers?
No offense, but at what undoubtedly small unrealistic SPL?
I don't think he meant a single driver or the same multiple drivers. He is talking about a system. And just like him, I can go up to ear splitting (read dangerous) levels and do not detect nonlinearity. Its a little scary sometimes.
And I do agree that if you cannot see a cone moving then there is no way that distortion in the speaker is audible. On the other hand many drivers (not all of course) can have visible excursion and still not have audible nonlinearity.
And I do agree that if you cannot see a cone moving then there is no way that distortion in the speaker is audible. On the other hand many drivers (not all of course) can have visible excursion and still not have audible nonlinearity.
I choose to listen at about 70 to 75dBc on a slow SPL meter at the listening position just under 3m from the speakers. They can go quite a lot louder but I can't. The bass is rolled off below 30Hz but there is still significant output down to single digits due to being sealed and close to the front wall. When I measure with REW I have to limit the sweep to start at 20Hz or the studs in the walls physically move the whole house. I loosened up the suspension by running 10Hz sine waves through them and that got the cones jumping. Each side has the equivalent Vd of a 12 to 15" woofer with 2.3mm of xmax.Hi fluid, wow....10Hz to 20kHz, same drivers?
No offense, but at what undoubtedly small unrealistic SPL?
I posted the information because they would not excel in IMD but they do very well for sound quality in room. But you are right that they are not for dB drag racing.
I have often thought that I could hear distortion on certain tracks and have always been wary about this due to how much EQ is being used. Every time I have found it to be a flaw in the track itself. I am always amazed how many digital overs have been allowed to make it through the production process.
No offense or with all due respect are my two favourite opposite meaning phrases
It is 25 x 3.5" fullrange drivers per side in a floor to ceiling line array. Similar in concept to Roger Russell's IDS25. I do have 2 x 15" subwoofers to add in but that is more for having multiple bass sources (other than the multiple vertical positions) not because the SPL is too limited for me.
cross them @300 Hz to a woofer unit a la Gryphon Pendragon et voilà - no problem with any practical SPL limit whatsoever or IMD or anything either
No offense or with all due respect are my two favourite opposite meaning phrases
Haha, you are quite right my friend
Cause what i really wanted to do was simply call BS
We truly have different takes on SPL and dynamics, huh
I have found this to be the case as well.
An interesting story: Trying to track down what I thought was a flaw in my speakers, I found that it was in fact clipping on the source signal. It was very limited, only a few times on the entire selection, but I heard it every time. Being only a few clipped samples, I wrote a simple program to interpolate back the clipped data. This resolved the issue that I heard. Thinking this was a nice trick that may have merit I sent out two selections to friends, one repaired and the other not and asked for their opinions of the differences. Most, if not the majority, preferred the clipped selection, sending my idea down the drain.
If it were a general all purpose tool I'd let you have it, but it was a custom code in MathCAD that only works with intensive user input.
That said, it would not be hard for some code to detect clipping and eliminate it using the same technique. The technique works best when there are only a few clipped samples. I have seen situations where there are a dozen or more clipped samples. This might get problematic for interpolation across such a long gap.
Note: This could not be done in real time because you have to rescale the entire song to allow for a larger signal swing.
That said, it would not be hard for some code to detect clipping and eliminate it using the same technique. The technique works best when there are only a few clipped samples. I have seen situations where there are a dozen or more clipped samples. This might get problematic for interpolation across such a long gap.
Note: This could not be done in real time because you have to rescale the entire song to allow for a larger signal swing.
I've seen tracks that almost look like square waves. And the bad thing is that it was done on purpose...
Amy Winehouse from the album: Back to Black. The song is Rehab.
It didn't sound all that good to me, so I took a peak... at the waveshapes.
But opinions do seem to vary: amy winehouse back to black - Gearslutz
(I would not expect anything to be able to repair that kind of deliberate introduced behavior)
Amy Winehouse from the album: Back to Black. The song is Rehab.
It didn't sound all that good to me, so I took a peak... at the waveshapes.
But opinions do seem to vary: amy winehouse back to black - Gearslutz
(I would not expect anything to be able to repair that kind of deliberate introduced behavior)
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So the more I figure out about spl the more possibilities I see....
especially If I copy this current max volume at driver, profile...(1" Tweet N 4" Mid)
looking at one of my test runs without horn
I assume waveguides provide no loading...I can run one from 400hz since I can also meet max loudness from 400hz on up with no waveguide lol....I could also probably use the the 350hz horn to cross at 200hz...breaking the horn rules of course...
How do you guys feel about a group delay bump at 332hz?
especially If I copy this current max volume at driver, profile...(1" Tweet N 4" Mid)
looking at one of my test runs without horn
I assume waveguides provide no loading...I can run one from 400hz since I can also meet max loudness from 400hz on up with no waveguide lol....I could also probably use the the 350hz horn to cross at 200hz...breaking the horn rules of course...
How do you guys feel about a group delay bump at 332hz?
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I've seen tracks that almost look like square waves. And the bad thing is that it was done on purpose...
That looks more like analog clipping on some signal then mixed with some cleaner signals. Mics are often clipped and not detected. Digital clipping like I saw was perfectly flat right at the rails.