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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

balanced crossover?
balanced crossover?
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Old 20th February 2019, 06:02 AM   #1
laserscrape is offline laserscrape
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Default balanced crossover?

If your using a balanced amp with inverted and non-inverted signals on either end for passive multi-way speakers wouldnt it need a special crossover to filter the inverted signal too?

Balanced speaker amps dont seem to be very common,
though there are relatively easy ways to DIY.
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Old 20th February 2019, 06:39 AM   #2
Windforce85 is offline Windforce85  Poland
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Originally Posted by laserscrape View Post
If your using a balanced amp with inverted and non-inverted signals on either end for passive multi-way speakers wouldnt it need a special crossover to filter the inverted signal too?
Nope.

I advise you to read and understand what is the purpose of balanced interconnection:

Sound System Interconnection

Balanced (fully symmetrically built) equipment is rare and it is not necessary at all unless it is your intention to waste money on component doubling. Engineer should put symmetrical circuits only where they are necessary - line receivers and drivers prone to noise contribution. Interconnecting cable is also a part of the system prone to noise contribution if the signal level is low.

Last edited by Windforce85; 20th February 2019 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 20th February 2019, 07:06 AM   #3
laserscrape is offline laserscrape
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Originally Posted by Windforce85 View Post
Nope.

I advise you to read and understand what is the purpose of balanced interconnection:

Sound System Interconnection

Balanced (fully symmetrically built) equipment is rare and it is not necessary at all unless it is your intention to waste money on component doubling. Engineer should put symmetrical circuits only where they are necessary - line receivers and drivers prone to noise contribution. Interconnecting cable is also a part of the system prone to noise contribution if the signal level is low.
I thought it was clear I meant balanced amp, not interconnection.
Class D chip amps are cheap, common and very easily configured like this, essentially doubling output power and far from a waste.
but that isnt relevant, the question was regarding crossovers after the balanced output of an amp.

Last edited by laserscrape; 20th February 2019 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 20th February 2019, 08:07 AM   #4
TBTL is offline TBTL  Germany
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The term 'balanced' loses its meaning if there are only two wire cores going to the speaker. The speaker only sees the differential voltage, not the common mode voltage. It does not care whether 'cold' is connected to amplifier ground or the inverted output.

Last edited by TBTL; 20th February 2019 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 20th February 2019, 08:13 AM   #5
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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The speaker sees an AC signal whatever kind of amp is used
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Old 20th February 2019, 09:33 AM   #6
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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balanced crossover?
As suggested above, the concept of balance stops once the 'ground' terminal ceases to be used. The two outputs will see a lumped impedance between them with no order of components.
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Old 20th February 2019, 01:41 PM   #7
Cousin Billy is offline Cousin Billy  Canada
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Gauder Akustik builds a symmetrical parallel crossover'ed speaker. They don't demand it, but best results are obtained with balanced amplification.

laserscrape, using the word 'balanced' confuses people. It should only be used for amplifiers, pre-amplifiers etc. For speaker crossovers, symmetrical is the word.

Atma-Sphere, BAT (Balanced Audio Technology), Macintosh Quad Differential, Giordini, Consummate, Gryphon, Krell (older models). The list goes on. All these amplifier manufacturers have a unifying belief; the entire sinusoidal waveform must be preserved. The +ve terminal pushes the driver out, the -ve terminal pushes the driver in. Notice how i didn't say push and pull?.

Let's take their mono-blocks. If you open one mono-block up, you will see two identical amplifiers inside. If the wires aren't colored, you would never know which is +ve or -ve. The entire waveform is preserved.

Who cares. Since every crossover (except Gauder) is asymmetrical, the balanced nature of the waveform is distorted. Hence, most people don't spend the money on balanced amplification. I did.

Where did the RCA interconnect come from? The audio industry wanted to bring HiFi to the masses. The center barrel is the positive portion of the waveform. Good start. The outer ring is the negative portion of the waveform, but it is referenced to ground. By adding a small inexpensive circuit, they restore the waveform. Problem; even at the speed of light, there is a lag. Who cares, you get really good sound, at a much lower cost. Human nature has shaped the audio landscape, not perfect sound reproduction.

You're starting down a slippery slope. No one here will support your thoughts or theories. PM me.
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Old 20th February 2019, 01:51 PM   #8
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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Originally Posted by Cousin Billy View Post
You're starting down a slippery slope. No one here will support your thoughts or theories. PM me.
It seems somebody's already on a slippery slope.
My goodness.

Dave.
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Old 20th February 2019, 01:55 PM   #9
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Hopefully the OP will ask himself why "no one here will support" them.
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Old 20th February 2019, 02:01 PM   #10
Salas is online now Salas  Greece
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balanced crossover?
Any two terminals transducer is inherently current balanced. Driving it from bridged voltage sources makes them see half its impedance each. Their damping factor halves. Power is quadrupled. Common mode noise considerations are irrelevant in this case.
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