I have several sets of older style Sansui Home theatre speakers here. I have been buying up as I find them because A I am a cheapskate and B I have no real funds for a H/T speaker set-up but wanted speakers that sounded good rather than just OK
Over the last couple of years I accumulated enough of these H/T sets to give me 5 speakers with 6" woofers rather than 4" woofers.
Today I started pulling drivers out of some of the smaller boxes to modify for use as my computer speakers.
So I am surprised that all of these speakers use the same crossover, small difference in the quality of the capacitor but the only real difference is in the amount of padding on the tweeter. I am surprised because the driver quality is reasonable and the boxes are very well made. So to reiterate.
The same XO on all boxes, no difference between the speakers with 4" or 6" or even the 8" woofers.
The SQ of the tweeter in the smaller boxes isn't all that great [ they were meant for the surrounds so I guess I shouldn't be surprised] so as I have some spare Sansui tweeters from the big boxes I was simply going to route out a bigger hole and do a swap, also thinking that changing the capacitor to a better 3.3uF Janten might be worthwhile as I have some here not allocated to a project.
XO is a ferro core inductor in line on the woofer and a simple cap plus shunt coil on the tweeter with some padding on the larger tweeters
I haven't checked values on the coils, I have misplaced my big multimetre
Over the last couple of years I accumulated enough of these H/T sets to give me 5 speakers with 6" woofers rather than 4" woofers.
Today I started pulling drivers out of some of the smaller boxes to modify for use as my computer speakers.
So I am surprised that all of these speakers use the same crossover, small difference in the quality of the capacitor but the only real difference is in the amount of padding on the tweeter. I am surprised because the driver quality is reasonable and the boxes are very well made. So to reiterate.
The same XO on all boxes, no difference between the speakers with 4" or 6" or even the 8" woofers.
The SQ of the tweeter in the smaller boxes isn't all that great [ they were meant for the surrounds so I guess I shouldn't be surprised] so as I have some spare Sansui tweeters from the big boxes I was simply going to route out a bigger hole and do a swap, also thinking that changing the capacitor to a better 3.3uF Janten might be worthwhile as I have some here not allocated to a project.
XO is a ferro core inductor in line on the woofer and a simple cap plus shunt coil on the tweeter with some padding on the larger tweeters
I haven't checked values on the coils, I have misplaced my big multimetre
I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for in response.
You describe what sounds like a first order crossover on the woofer and second order on the tweeter.
Whether this is good or bad or otherwise is completely a function of the drivers. Though I would generally prefer to avoid ferrite cores inductors.
If you can spring for the cash, I would recommend you buy a measurement microphone and use this to measure the acoustic output.
I have used expensive drivers that need complex crossovers because their output out of band, and sometimes in band, is awful. Classic case in point the KEF B110 - a gruesome but famous driver.
On the other hand the P Audio 10 inch woofer (forget its part number) is awesomely easy to cross over and so well damped that there are nil out of band peculiarities to manage.
You need measurement gear to manage these issues.
Without this you are not likely to achieve an objectively (by meadurement) great outcome. That said if you just want to play, you could build some speakers that subjectively make you happy.
You describe what sounds like a first order crossover on the woofer and second order on the tweeter.
Whether this is good or bad or otherwise is completely a function of the drivers. Though I would generally prefer to avoid ferrite cores inductors.
If you can spring for the cash, I would recommend you buy a measurement microphone and use this to measure the acoustic output.
I have used expensive drivers that need complex crossovers because their output out of band, and sometimes in band, is awful. Classic case in point the KEF B110 - a gruesome but famous driver.
On the other hand the P Audio 10 inch woofer (forget its part number) is awesomely easy to cross over and so well damped that there are nil out of band peculiarities to manage.
You need measurement gear to manage these issues.
Without this you are not likely to achieve an objectively (by meadurement) great outcome. That said if you just want to play, you could build some speakers that subjectively make you happy.
Well basically aI was wondering why a reputable company would use the same XO on similar but different speakers and whether upgrading a 10cent capacitor with a $5- was a good idea SQ wise. Also would replacing a 20mm tweeter with a 25mm tweeter not have needed a factory different XO?
CtoC distances are different as are the offsets and SPLs
One day soon I'll buy a microphone but I may also die of old age first
CtoC distances are different as are the offsets and SPLs
One day soon I'll buy a microphone but I may also die of old age first
Mass produced without concern for getting the best result seems the most likely answer. Using the same crossover regardless of the speakers is definitely going to affect quality but from a manufacturing pov saves a huge amount of money.
I'm sure you will be able to get a much better result if you design your own crossovers
Tony.
I'm sure you will be able to get a much better result if you design your own crossovers
Tony.
Price point was my initial thought too
The 6" 2-Way that were supposed to be FR & FL are actually reasonably good sounding speakers, especially compared to the 8" double woofer 2-Way sold at the same time as part of the same series but later. I'm wondering if they did some work on the 6" and when that turned out to be acceptable just cloned it into all the others.
I may just have to cough up some cash for the Dayton version of the Woofer tester and a matching calibrated microphone. Must sell grandchild into slavery first and so far no offers, he eats and talks too much and also illegal now
The 6" 2-Way that were supposed to be FR & FL are actually reasonably good sounding speakers, especially compared to the 8" double woofer 2-Way sold at the same time as part of the same series but later. I'm wondering if they did some work on the 6" and when that turned out to be acceptable just cloned it into all the others.
I may just have to cough up some cash for the Dayton version of the Woofer tester and a matching calibrated microphone. Must sell grandchild into slavery first and so far no offers, he eats and talks too much and also illegal now
I didnt realise that grandchildren had been made illegal. But I do see some merits to such a legislative change
+1 on the low return on investment on changing capacitor brands. But I am an engineer and deeply cynical.
If you like fiddling and playing a cheap mic and sound card (or USB mic I guess) will be a huge amount of fun. Or frustration. Or both.
+1 on the low return on investment on changing capacitor brands. But I am an engineer and deeply cynical.
If you like fiddling and playing a cheap mic and sound card (or USB mic I guess) will be a huge amount of fun. Or frustration. Or both.
Hi Moondog.
The BP caps are the first thing to change out with PP, Jaycar etc are perfectly fine as are the Jantzen ones you have.
This may change the HF balance and require change of padding values slightly, maybe not.
IME ferrite cored inductors have a sound, as do iron cored inductors.... air cored coils are much better/cleaner sounding but can get expensive.
A simple resistor (100R or less) or zobel network across the input terminals will improve overall clarity and resoloution and is a cheap experiment.
A couple of 0.6W MF from Jaycar etc wired in parallel works fine for experimentation purpose (permanently).
Dan.
The BP caps are the first thing to change out with PP, Jaycar etc are perfectly fine as are the Jantzen ones you have.
This may change the HF balance and require change of padding values slightly, maybe not.
IME ferrite cored inductors have a sound, as do iron cored inductors.... air cored coils are much better/cleaner sounding but can get expensive.
A simple resistor (100R or less) or zobel network across the input terminals will improve overall clarity and resoloution and is a cheap experiment.
A couple of 0.6W MF from Jaycar etc wired in parallel works fine for experimentation purpose (permanently).
Dan.
Moondog, if you have a sound card with line out and line in you can get set up for impedance measurements for under $10. Cables I use REW for the measurements.
Microphone, if you have a mic preamp, I made up a cable to use the dayton IMM6 to my sound card (it's got a calibration file too) I got it from wagner for $29.99
I actually use my own diy mic, but got the dayton to do some santiy checks on how good my diy mic was.
Tony.
Microphone, if you have a mic preamp, I made up a cable to use the dayton IMM6 to my sound card (it's got a calibration file too) I got it from wagner for $29.99
I actually use my own diy mic, but got the dayton to do some santiy checks on how good my diy mic was.
Tony.
Tweaking generic crossovers
So here are pix of 3 Sansui crossovers.
While one is larger the difference is this is using an aircore coil and not the ferro
Apart from changing the cheap electrolytic for something better I have thought about gently turning the small aircore around to be at 90degrees to the other.
So here are pix of 3 Sansui crossovers.
While one is larger the difference is this is using an aircore coil and not the ferro
Apart from changing the cheap electrolytic for something better I have thought about gently turning the small aircore around to be at 90degrees to the other.
Attachments
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.