After 10 years in a small apartment I’ve finally decided to buy a house. I close in February and the prospect of having some actual space to work with has my DIY neurons buzzing. I’m looking for recommendations for speaker builds for the living room, a 16’x18’ space with a cathedral ceiling. I’m torn between a few directions and I’m here for some recommendations. My last project was a pair of Mark Audio Pensils with 10p fullrange speakers.
Given the size of the space I think I’ll need to go multiway this time. Whatever I build will face a lot of different music types. In general, we prefer clearer flatter presentation without a ton of bass or hype. For the last couple of years I’d dreamed of making an Altec 604 style cabinet with a 12 or 15” coaxial speaker (Using a radian or similar modern driver) in it but recently I have been fascinated by open baffles like the Pure Audio Trio which seems to be somewhat cloneabable. I’ve never heard an open baffle in person though and I’m not set up for a lot of measurement or experimentation. Budget wise I think I’d like to be around $1k. I don’t have a specific amp in mind at this time.
I’m here for some recomendations on general project directions.
Brian
Given the size of the space I think I’ll need to go multiway this time. Whatever I build will face a lot of different music types. In general, we prefer clearer flatter presentation without a ton of bass or hype. For the last couple of years I’d dreamed of making an Altec 604 style cabinet with a 12 or 15” coaxial speaker (Using a radian or similar modern driver) in it but recently I have been fascinated by open baffles like the Pure Audio Trio which seems to be somewhat cloneabable. I’ve never heard an open baffle in person though and I’m not set up for a lot of measurement or experimentation. Budget wise I think I’d like to be around $1k. I don’t have a specific amp in mind at this time.
I’m here for some recomendations on general project directions.
Brian
If measurements aren't an option I'd opt for a kit from diysoundgroup, madisound, meniscus, PE, etc. It's like shooting in the dark without them. For an open baffle kit the LX521 would be quite the treat. Over budget though. The LX Mini plus subs would be nice too. Heard these and the plutos in a similar room. Very cool little speakers.
Don't be afraid of eq either. It can make a world of difference.
Don't be afraid of eq either. It can make a world of difference.
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Can you point me in a direction? Is there a brand or design I should check out?
Have a look at the Soeaker Design Works Statement speakers. Plenty to fill the space, the originals have a published BOM of $770 and the updated II of $980. To this you need to add the wood and finishing plus hardware. If these are a bit big then the mini statements may be fine.
Speaker Design Works
Speaker Design Works
Don't ignore the visual aspect of this new space. And then there's the whole debate re directivity...and saf...congratulations on the move. Like many say, enjoy the music!
BTW I have listened to the Radian 5208 coaxial and was surprised that a prosound monitor driver could sound bright not harsh.
BTW I have listened to the Radian 5208 coaxial and was surprised that a prosound monitor driver could sound bright not harsh.
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Brian -
While my suggestion of going ESL is a solid one (hmmmm, inspired by how you described your sound style in the opening post), I am not capable of answering the "how" question. Posting in the Planars forum will get you lots of leads.
Rayma, for example, has a good suggestion.
ESLs - whether DIY from scratch as many do in the Planars forum or starting with a commercial unit at the core like Quad* - are very gratifying DIY trips. For sure, you'll need a cone sub-woofer and then the related bi-amp electronics.
Puzzles me to learn of people going to compulsive lengths to make cone speakers better, fussing with phase, diffraction, etc. Yes, those might be improvements on a cranky approach. But if quality was the real goal, wouldn't ditching the cranky approach be logical?
B.
* I'm hybrid, using 6 Dayton-Wright cells in each of my curved DIY panels, crossing over around 130 Hz
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I’ve poked around a bit on ESL now but I think I have consider them infeasible at this point. They seem a bit out of my reach right now in terms of skill. Someday perhaps, but not in 2019.
If I were ready to make the call right now to go open baffle, I’d have to agree. I’m not quite ready yet though.
Invest some study time on designs which use waveguides/horns for controlled directivity. Read Dr. Earl Geddes paper on controlled directivity, and also read the current thread on the in-room interactions between normal direct radiating speakers vs horn/waveguide designs. Some find that the best sound is not the most accurate measured on-axis response.
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http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/directivity.pdf
The Preference for Direct Radiators
The Preference for Direct Radiators
WIKI
"The on axis, free space directivity factor for sound sources with several common free space radiation patterns are as follows: Monopole: DF = 1.0, Dipole: DF = 3, Cardioid: DF = 3, 90x90 Horn: DF=8.27. What this means is that if these three different sources are to radiate the same total acoustic power then if the monopole has an on axis intensity of 1.0 the dipole and cardioid will have an on axis intensity of 3.0 or 4.77 dB greater, and the horn will have an on axis intensity of 8.27 or 9.2 dB greater. Conversely, if the difference sources are to have the same on axis intensity then the dipole and cardioid will radiate 1/3 the acoustic power of the monopole, and the horn 1/9 the acoustic power of the monopole. When studying room acoustics and reverberation this means that the "critical distance" from the speaker will be greater for a dipole or cardioid or horn than for a monopole. The "critical distance" is the distance at which direct and reflected sound are equal. The level of the reflected sound, above the modal region of the room, is usually considered constant and proportional to the total radiated power. Thus when sitting the same distance from a conventional speaker and a dipole/horn, the dipole/horn can potentially sound more detailed since at the position that ratio of direct to reflected sound is greater. "
If you decide to build a direct radiating speaker, klone the best AVALON beveled baffle design for your needs. 1" dome, 6" midrange, 12" woofer
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TWO Interesting 18” WIDE 3-way waveguide designs which could fit your goals.
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The BMF1 speaker custom-built by Tweek Geek has received high praise in public shows. The use of two-sealed, near-floor, side-side, counter-force, DSP-controlled woofers provides powerful deep bass in a medium size 6cuft cabinet. The Tweek Geek website has several construction pictures,
HIGH-watts to two 24Hz equalized 12" woofers allows a modest H46" W18" D17" total 6cuft cabinet that fits many homes. The Eminence Kappalite 3012HO was selected for the midwoofer based upon the $188 price, datasheet measurements and user feedback "dynamic and natural sound".
$13 B-52 PHRN-1014 1" Horn 10" x 14" Bolt-On waveguide
Model: PHRN-1014|Part # 299-2303
$63 Peerless 1.75" DFM-2544R00-08 compression driver
$188 Eminence KappaLite 3012HO Midrange:
|Model: Kappalite 3012LF |Part # 290-590 |$189
TWO $156 Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" woofer (two in series = 6.2 ohms)
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$576 for drivers
34 best Tweek Geek's BMF Speaker in the making images on Pinterest | Geek stuff, Geek things and Music speakers
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ACTIVE THREAD….
Open Source "Tower XL"
Open Source "Tower XL"
Faital Pro Drivers
1” Faital Compression Driver
Tratrix Horn
8” midrange 8PR200
15” woofer 15FH300
----------
http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/directivity.pdf
The Preference for Direct Radiators
The Preference for Direct Radiators
WIKI
"The on axis, free space directivity factor for sound sources with several common free space radiation patterns are as follows: Monopole: DF = 1.0, Dipole: DF = 3, Cardioid: DF = 3, 90x90 Horn: DF=8.27. What this means is that if these three different sources are to radiate the same total acoustic power then if the monopole has an on axis intensity of 1.0 the dipole and cardioid will have an on axis intensity of 3.0 or 4.77 dB greater, and the horn will have an on axis intensity of 8.27 or 9.2 dB greater. Conversely, if the difference sources are to have the same on axis intensity then the dipole and cardioid will radiate 1/3 the acoustic power of the monopole, and the horn 1/9 the acoustic power of the monopole. When studying room acoustics and reverberation this means that the "critical distance" from the speaker will be greater for a dipole or cardioid or horn than for a monopole. The "critical distance" is the distance at which direct and reflected sound are equal. The level of the reflected sound, above the modal region of the room, is usually considered constant and proportional to the total radiated power. Thus when sitting the same distance from a conventional speaker and a dipole/horn, the dipole/horn can potentially sound more detailed since at the position that ratio of direct to reflected sound is greater. "
If you decide to build a direct radiating speaker, klone the best AVALON beveled baffle design for your needs. 1" dome, 6" midrange, 12" woofer
========
========
TWO Interesting 18” WIDE 3-way waveguide designs which could fit your goals.
--------
The BMF1 speaker custom-built by Tweek Geek has received high praise in public shows. The use of two-sealed, near-floor, side-side, counter-force, DSP-controlled woofers provides powerful deep bass in a medium size 6cuft cabinet. The Tweek Geek website has several construction pictures,
HIGH-watts to two 24Hz equalized 12" woofers allows a modest H46" W18" D17" total 6cuft cabinet that fits many homes. The Eminence Kappalite 3012HO was selected for the midwoofer based upon the $188 price, datasheet measurements and user feedback "dynamic and natural sound".
$13 B-52 PHRN-1014 1" Horn 10" x 14" Bolt-On waveguide
Model: PHRN-1014|Part # 299-2303
$63 Peerless 1.75" DFM-2544R00-08 compression driver
$188 Eminence KappaLite 3012HO Midrange:
|Model: Kappalite 3012LF |Part # 290-590 |$189
TWO $156 Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" woofer (two in series = 6.2 ohms)
-------------------------
$576 for drivers
34 best Tweek Geek's BMF Speaker in the making images on Pinterest | Geek stuff, Geek things and Music speakers
==========
==========
ACTIVE THREAD….
Open Source "Tower XL"
Open Source "Tower XL"
Faital Pro Drivers
1” Faital Compression Driver
Tratrix Horn
8” midrange 8PR200
15” woofer 15FH300
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