Because my Classe Pre-amp also has AV capabilities - so I use it for movies in a 5.1 setup. Source is an Android TV box with KODI/Plex connected via HDMI
It just so happens I can also connect my audio player PC by HDMI as well, and send 8 channels of DSP'd stereo from JRiver media center (my current audio library/player)
^^That Benchmarks looks like the best measuring amp ever tested.
Benchmark Media Systems' AHB2 is an extraordinary amplifier. Not only does its performance lie at the limits of what is possible for me to reliably test, it packs high power into a very small package, especially when used in bridged-mono mode. It is truly a high-resolution amplifier.
Read more at Benchmark Media Systems AHB2 power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Phillil,
I use a 2001 model Yamaha RX-V 630RDS as preamp, and it's main L/R analog pre-outs give signal to minidsp 4x10HD. Then analog out to ICEpower modules. Works fine, no hiss or hum, good sound. I use analog 2ch sources mostly and I am totally happy. More direct digital routing without conversions might be better, but I will wait until my good ole Yammy dies!
Benchmark Media Systems' AHB2 is an extraordinary amplifier. Not only does its performance lie at the limits of what is possible for me to reliably test, it packs high power into a very small package, especially when used in bridged-mono mode. It is truly a high-resolution amplifier.
Read more at Benchmark Media Systems AHB2 power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Phillil,
I use a 2001 model Yamaha RX-V 630RDS as preamp, and it's main L/R analog pre-outs give signal to minidsp 4x10HD. Then analog out to ICEpower modules. Works fine, no hiss or hum, good sound. I use analog 2ch sources mostly and I am totally happy. More direct digital routing without conversions might be better, but I will wait until my good ole Yammy dies!
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OK, not intending to be snarky here, but you obviously aren't familiar with how e.g. a really high-end analogue preamp and Class A mosfet power amp can sound.
The fact that the miniDSP AD/DA loop doesn't audibly degrade performance when using your preamp & class D amps does not necessarily imply that the same would hold true with someone else's chain, of the kind that I mentioned above.
^I have heard other full- or semi digital dsp systems like Devialet too, but differences in sound have come from loudspeakers and room, or using LP as source, in my opinion.
I have also tried a reasonably good Audiolab amplifier powering my tweeters, but measured and listened response was exactly the same. I have two other systems utilizing minidsp 2x4HD (3-way and 2-way+sub)with different dacs like O2 and Audio-GD, PrimaLuna tube-preamp and class A/AB and class AB transistor power amps (XTZ, Audiolab, Vincent, Onkyo, Cambridge Audio etc.) and 500W ICEPower units in NHT Power2 amp. And mixing them. Putting an extra dsp unit somewhere in the line without any processing does not change sound at all (but using that tube-pre does). But perhaps my hearing and measuring gear are inadequate.
I know that there are measurable differencies between dacs and dsp systems, but less than between analog devices! I very much doubt that differences of sound of dsp devices with same settings are detectable in blind listening tests, as long as everything is set up right. But dsps can do things that are not even possible for analog devices.
I have noticed that many analog addicts refuse to even try dsp. Many people think also that you must have a really expensive amplifer to detect sound of different power cables or interconnects.
MiniDSP 4x10 HD Performance Measurements.
I have also tried a reasonably good Audiolab amplifier powering my tweeters, but measured and listened response was exactly the same. I have two other systems utilizing minidsp 2x4HD (3-way and 2-way+sub)with different dacs like O2 and Audio-GD, PrimaLuna tube-preamp and class A/AB and class AB transistor power amps (XTZ, Audiolab, Vincent, Onkyo, Cambridge Audio etc.) and 500W ICEPower units in NHT Power2 amp. And mixing them. Putting an extra dsp unit somewhere in the line without any processing does not change sound at all (but using that tube-pre does). But perhaps my hearing and measuring gear are inadequate.
I know that there are measurable differencies between dacs and dsp systems, but less than between analog devices! I very much doubt that differences of sound of dsp devices with same settings are detectable in blind listening tests, as long as everything is set up right. But dsps can do things that are not even possible for analog devices.
I have noticed that many analog addicts refuse to even try dsp. Many people think also that you must have a really expensive amplifer to detect sound of different power cables or interconnects.
MiniDSP 4x10 HD Performance Measurements.
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The problem with many resonably priced DSP platforms is that they often can't do what DSP theoretically could do due to the restrictions of the control software involved. Sometimes they can't even do things that would be easy with analog circuitry either.
I use Sigma Studio - which allows lots of tricks other than just putting lowpass, highpass and EQ sections in a row like some GUIs for DIYers allow. But I wouldn't want to keep one of these development platforms in a definite setup.
Regards
Charles
I use Sigma Studio - which allows lots of tricks other than just putting lowpass, highpass and EQ sections in a row like some GUIs for DIYers allow. But I wouldn't want to keep one of these development platforms in a definite setup.
Regards
Charles
Thanks for that Juhazi. Measurements look pretty good. I heard some say that the 4x10 was noisy, but I sure can't hear it or maybe I'm deaf?
Thanks for that Juhazi. Measurements look pretty good. I heard some say that the 4x10 was noisy, but I sure can't hear it or maybe I'm deaf?
I can definitely tell you my 4X10 is noisy. However, my friend also has one, that isn't. I guess it all depends on your luck, as to which piece you end up with.
^Most likely you have different gain settings (dip switches on pcb) and therefore the noisy unit amplifies the noise that comes with input signal! Please check those settings and your signal level.
MiniDSP : Why is the miniDSP 4x10 Hd set for 0.9Vrms default (1/1)
MiniDSP : Why is the miniDSP 4x10 Hd set for 0.9Vrms default (1/1)
Would be great if it was actually available. Until someone publishes a price it is not available.
Big deal. ADCs are common that will better vinyl by several orders of magnitude.
If there is an available ADC that will better "vinyl" I would like to know where to look. Of course, saying something will better vinyl is bordering on meaninglessness. I do not doubt there are four thousand dollars ones that can come close.
WHAT vinyl setup are you speaking of? An old Dual turntable with an AUDIO TECHNICA cartridge (not as if I am saying that would automatically be awful) is one thing. There are many of us with very refined LP playback that I suspect there are few ADCs that can match. Of course they all will be quieter with the obvious LP noises while being noisier in the atmospheric kind of noise that infects every aspect of digital playback - most worse than some.
I would love to try something like the proposed box from the fellow in Australia.
I hope he gets this to fruition but I worry when someone announces a product too soon before they are able to deliver it does result in concern about the product. How many people will lose interest in the overly long gestation?
Nonetheless, I still check the thread to see if anything has happened. Seems the fellow behind the product would give some indication where he is in the process but it seems like he has made them for a couple of folks in Australia and he answers their questions on his thread which makes the whole thing seem even stranger. The answers and the questions shed no light on the product nor give any indication as to where it is in its development.
I like analogue better anyway but I am curious to hear if having the ability to adjust delay between drivers can make a worthwhile difference to my system. Too many LPs to not have the ability to play them.
WHAT vinyl setup are you speaking of? An old Dual turntable with an AUDIO TECHNICA cartridge (not as if I am saying that would automatically be awful) is one thing. There are many of us with very refined LP playback that I suspect there are few ADCs that can match. Of course they all will be quieter with the obvious LP noises while being noisier in the atmospheric kind of noise that infects every aspect of digital playback - most worse than some.
I would love to try something like the proposed box from the fellow in Australia.
I hope he gets this to fruition but I worry when someone announces a product too soon before they are able to deliver it does result in concern about the product. How many people will lose interest in the overly long gestation?
Nonetheless, I still check the thread to see if anything has happened. Seems the fellow behind the product would give some indication where he is in the process but it seems like he has made them for a couple of folks in Australia and he answers their questions on his thread which makes the whole thing seem even stranger. The answers and the questions shed no light on the product nor give any indication as to where it is in its development.
I like analogue better anyway but I am curious to hear if having the ability to adjust delay between drivers can make a worthwhile difference to my system. Too many LPs to not have the ability to play them.
Adc that will better vinyl i agree that doesn't make sense.
Adc that are used to produce vinyls ( yes you can have digital gear used before vinyl lathe):
B2 Bomber ADC | Burl Audio
Lavry Engineering
Pure 2 Mastering AD/DA Converter & Clock | Antelope Audio
AD-2 Home Page
ADC2 | Weiss Engineering Ltd.
You've got choice...
Then you use a hardware or computer for processing then the equivalent da converters ( the multichannel equivalent of reference linked) and you are done. Same thing used in a mastering signal path.
Adc that are used to produce vinyls ( yes you can have digital gear used before vinyl lathe):
B2 Bomber ADC | Burl Audio
Lavry Engineering
Pure 2 Mastering AD/DA Converter & Clock | Antelope Audio
AD-2 Home Page
ADC2 | Weiss Engineering Ltd.
You've got choice...
Then you use a hardware or computer for processing then the equivalent da converters ( the multichannel equivalent of reference linked) and you are done. Same thing used in a mastering signal path.
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Pricing isn't a secret
As suggested, you could email TB. Some members have bought one (around $2,700 AUD, I believe) and are very impressed.
I did send an email. Never heard a thing.
I think many people are skeptical of that arrangement. You wonder if the price changes based upon - WHO KNOWS?
It is his choice but I think full disclosure of what he plans to do would be better.
He mentions those modules. How difficult would it be to simply tell people what the price is? Being in the US I am not too interested in paying to have a metal box shipped here. Getting the modules would be a better way and after all this is nominally a DIY site and with his posting of the device here he intends to sell to DIY folk. Along with price give an honest estimate of how long one will wait for what they have ordered.
When it comes to things like this I am very patient. But that is when the seller is honest with me. Saying something is in stock and waiting three months is a sure way to get people talking about you in unflattering ways. I have not
I hope the thing becomes real. I do not think it is perfect but I do think it is better, conceptually, than anything else I have seen on the market for folks like us. The dbx stuff is not for me. BEHRINGER, no thanks. I would consider the YAMAHA but I think TRANQUILITY BASS would be far better for what I want to do and I would think would sound immensely better than all of them. With the Yamaha I suspect standing head and shoulders above the BEHRINGER toys and the dbx. Mini-DSP was not even considered.
Oh, well ... just an opinion.
I think many people are skeptical of that arrangement. You wonder if the price changes based upon - WHO KNOWS?
It is his choice but I think full disclosure of what he plans to do would be better.
He mentions those modules. How difficult would it be to simply tell people what the price is? Being in the US I am not too interested in paying to have a metal box shipped here. Getting the modules would be a better way and after all this is nominally a DIY site and with his posting of the device here he intends to sell to DIY folk. Along with price give an honest estimate of how long one will wait for what they have ordered.
When it comes to things like this I am very patient. But that is when the seller is honest with me. Saying something is in stock and waiting three months is a sure way to get people talking about you in unflattering ways. I have not
I hope the thing becomes real. I do not think it is perfect but I do think it is better, conceptually, than anything else I have seen on the market for folks like us. The dbx stuff is not for me. BEHRINGER, no thanks. I would consider the YAMAHA but I think TRANQUILITY BASS would be far better for what I want to do and I would think would sound immensely better than all of them. With the Yamaha I suspect standing head and shoulders above the BEHRINGER toys and the dbx. Mini-DSP was not even considered.
Oh, well ... just an opinion.
adc that will better vinyl (and riaa)? Seriously is it so difficult????
Cartridge tests
You also need a turntable, and they have properties like wow, flutter, rumble... And the disc makes hiss, cracks and pops (but I confess that these are difficult to achieve with adc, without an appropriate plugin)
Let me guess that you guys also prefer tube power amplifiers over semiconductors?
Cartridge tests
You also need a turntable, and they have properties like wow, flutter, rumble... And the disc makes hiss, cracks and pops (but I confess that these are difficult to achieve with adc, without an appropriate plugin)
Let me guess that you guys also prefer tube power amplifiers over semiconductors?
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You'll get no argument from me, but the analogue die-hards will always complain about digital in one way or another.
Well, you do not have me figured out very well.
All solid state amplification, even op amps in the phono stage. Certainly not garden variety solid state ...
If you are happy and enjoying what you are hearing why do you care what other people say?
If you do not perceive what LPs can do then you have nothing to worry about.
No one thinks analogue is quiet but few digital cheerleaders seem to perceive the pernicious noise of digital. If this doesn't bother you, you are in luck!
I have a theory about why low frequency noise in analogue might be beneficial: I know this is fanciful but who knows? Everyone knows it is easier to move something that is already moving. Like a damper on a motorcycle or a car - there is "stiction" - a word made up to describe how these devices are hard to get moving compared to how easy they are to continue moving once movement has begun.
Is it possible that the air is the same? That the inevitable low frequency rumbling from the record groove (not the bearing) excites the air in the room which makes this air that much more "ready" to move the way the loudspeaker wants it to? So maybe noise might be a useful part of the compromises that are all too prevalent in audio. Of course, it is annoying at times but it is just one of many annoyances.
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