Has anyone heard the latest CSS Model P215 speaker without the $400 crossover upgrade?
I did read one article but the P215s the author had heard included the $400 crossover upgrade which comes close to doubling the cost of the kit.
I would also be interested in hearing recommendations for any other DIY speaker kit that includes cabinets. I'm looking for audiophile sound in a bookshelf speaker.
My reference standard is a set of Thiel CS6.3 driven by Krell KSA100, Twisted Pear Buffalo IIISE DAC, and FLAC CD copies. I don't expect bookshelf speakers to be as good as the Thiels but many years ago I heard some that were impressive.
I appreciate any input/recommendations.
EDIT: If you've heard the P215 with the upgraded crossover I'd like to know about that also. The price of the upgraded kit is not out of reach but I don't want to spend much that based on the information I have today.
I did read one article but the P215s the author had heard included the $400 crossover upgrade which comes close to doubling the cost of the kit.
I would also be interested in hearing recommendations for any other DIY speaker kit that includes cabinets. I'm looking for audiophile sound in a bookshelf speaker.
My reference standard is a set of Thiel CS6.3 driven by Krell KSA100, Twisted Pear Buffalo IIISE DAC, and FLAC CD copies. I don't expect bookshelf speakers to be as good as the Thiels but many years ago I heard some that were impressive.
I appreciate any input/recommendations.
EDIT: If you've heard the P215 with the upgraded crossover I'd like to know about that also. The price of the upgraded kit is not out of reach but I don't want to spend much that based on the information I have today.
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What PE speakers are you referring to? I've heard/built many speakers with parts from PE, Meniscus, Madisound, Solen, and more...
My Nephila kit from Meniscus is a gem at ~$400, and uses a slightly modified PE knock-down cab. It as a great design, but not a bookshelf.
How big are we talking?
Wolf
My Nephila kit from Meniscus is a gem at ~$400, and uses a slightly modified PE knock-down cab. It as a great design, but not a bookshelf.
How big are we talking?
Wolf
I have not heard it myself, sorry but I cannot offer you any first hand experience.
From what I have read the upgrades are Jantzen caps, air coil inductors, etc. Unless I am mistaken the circuit is the same.
I did not have experience with the Satori woofer used but I do have extensive experience with the Wavecor 22mm upon which the LD22 is based. It is a very competent tweeter but it is not a miracle tweeter. Sounds very much like a very good fabric dome, as it should. CSS are not going to give you bad parts without the upgrade, I trust them to still offer you something that is very good, and to me IMO the tweeter is not at the level yet where a Jantzen upgrade would have mattered. The woofer I really don't know, maybe that instead is the main protagonist of this product.
From what I have read the upgrades are Jantzen caps, air coil inductors, etc. Unless I am mistaken the circuit is the same.
I did not have experience with the Satori woofer used but I do have extensive experience with the Wavecor 22mm upon which the LD22 is based. It is a very competent tweeter but it is not a miracle tweeter. Sounds very much like a very good fabric dome, as it should. CSS are not going to give you bad parts without the upgrade, I trust them to still offer you something that is very good, and to me IMO the tweeter is not at the level yet where a Jantzen upgrade would have mattered. The woofer I really don't know, maybe that instead is the main protagonist of this product.
cyberstudio, do you know of a speaker kit <$1000 that includes a tweeter that is generally considered clearly superior to the LD22?
Also, if you know of a speaker kit in the <$500 range that you consider a real standout, I would be interested in that.
Anything I build will not be my main system so I can take some risk. I spend the winters in Arizona and I have gotten in the habit of building an audio project every winter. This winter I was thinking about building a set of speakers and then either a Bob Latino Dynakit or Elekit amps to go with the speakers.
Any recommendations are appreciated.
Also, if you know of a speaker kit in the <$500 range that you consider a real standout, I would be interested in that.
Anything I build will not be my main system so I can take some risk. I spend the winters in Arizona and I have gotten in the habit of building an audio project every winter. This winter I was thinking about building a set of speakers and then either a Bob Latino Dynakit or Elekit amps to go with the speakers.
Any recommendations are appreciated.
There are a few different versions of the Wavecor TW22 and I have not heard them all, but the LD22 is an outstanding driver and much more capable than the ferrite magnet and narrow surround version of the TW22. Your definition of miracle tweeter may differ, but the CSS LD22 is one of the very top performing 22mm domes I have ever heard, especially given its price point. Very low distortion, impeccable build quality, and excellent musicality. Whether or not the xo upgrade is worth it is a subjective choice, but you could always order both crossovers and return the one you don't want. You'd just have to pay return shipping for a pair of crossovers at that point.
The Wavecor I used was TW022WA04 with neodymium magnet. My understanding was that the LD22 had a custom faceplate to better control dispersion.
To clarify, for $500, you can't do any better than the P215. At that price level, however, I do not see dropping another $400 to upgrade crossover parts, that's all, as I do not see how that could have made a $400 difference in sound.
If the overall budget is $1000, I personally would buy something with the RAAL ribbon, such as from Dennis Murphy (Philharmonitor) or Rick Craig (Selah Audio). That was what I meant by the next league from LD22, but even that might not be indisputable, as it is apple vs oranges. (Ribbon vs fabric dome vs metal dome and whatever else your favourite tweeter type might be.)
As soon as I utter my $1,000 choice I realized why I am using the Wavecor 22mm myself - it is a competent player helping others in the team, so it does not need to always score the goal itself. The ability to cross relatively low for a tweeter of such small size helps greatly with integrating with whatever woofer you pair it up with, something that RAAL cannot claim the same. It has a relatively flat impedance curve so it is really easy to use. I wish it had more clarity (NOT that it is lacking but you always want more don't you), but it is a fabric dome after all, the upside of which is it is always pleasant to listen to but never fatiguing. It is an exemplary fabric dome, with all of its strengths and limitations.
My 'not miracle' comment was to dissuade from the costly crossover parts, not from the tweeter itself. Hope this makes things clear.
For instance, Janzten used to make inductors of pure silver. What 'miracle' woofer would have benefited from that, I might ask? Under the right circumstances even iron cores are perfectly fine.
To clarify, for $500, you can't do any better than the P215. At that price level, however, I do not see dropping another $400 to upgrade crossover parts, that's all, as I do not see how that could have made a $400 difference in sound.
If the overall budget is $1000, I personally would buy something with the RAAL ribbon, such as from Dennis Murphy (Philharmonitor) or Rick Craig (Selah Audio). That was what I meant by the next league from LD22, but even that might not be indisputable, as it is apple vs oranges. (Ribbon vs fabric dome vs metal dome and whatever else your favourite tweeter type might be.)
As soon as I utter my $1,000 choice I realized why I am using the Wavecor 22mm myself - it is a competent player helping others in the team, so it does not need to always score the goal itself. The ability to cross relatively low for a tweeter of such small size helps greatly with integrating with whatever woofer you pair it up with, something that RAAL cannot claim the same. It has a relatively flat impedance curve so it is really easy to use. I wish it had more clarity (NOT that it is lacking but you always want more don't you), but it is a fabric dome after all, the upside of which is it is always pleasant to listen to but never fatiguing. It is an exemplary fabric dome, with all of its strengths and limitations.
My 'not miracle' comment was to dissuade from the costly crossover parts, not from the tweeter itself. Hope this makes things clear.
For instance, Janzten used to make inductors of pure silver. What 'miracle' woofer would have benefited from that, I might ask? Under the right circumstances even iron cores are perfectly fine.
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DiscoJones and cyberstudio, thank you for the information. I will do a lot of research and try and figure out what to do. I like the idea of getting the P215 with both crossovers and sending one of the crossovers but I will check out both Philharmonitor and Selah Audio. I will probably also check into making my own cabinets. I have access to a fully equipped wood shop this winter so that is a possibility.
Thanks again
Thanks again
Actually you kind of have. The first prototype (the box that didn't have professional finish quality) we brought to one of the events you were at was using cheap parts. Not the same parts we offer in the kit (they were actually cheaper) but generally of the same type (iron core inductors, basic poly caps). What we had at AXPONA and the last InDIYana with the nicely finished cabinet was the upgrade.
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