Almost a month of playing every day, and these W6 are starting to break in and open up nicely.
Instruments and vocals are getting more precise, and the soundstage has expanded way past the physical speakers.
Soon, they will need a real dedicated enclosure.
I'm still not sure if they will be by themselves, or add a woofer under for a bit more punch in the low end.
Instruments and vocals are getting more precise, and the soundstage has expanded way past the physical speakers.
Soon, they will need a real dedicated enclosure.
I'm still not sure if they will be by themselves, or add a woofer under for a bit more punch in the low end.
Been tweaking a bit more.
Now, I really like the soundstage these W6-2313 are putting out there.
The sound image is very 3D, extending far outside the physical speakers, but also fore and aft, making the singer stand in front of the speakers and the instruments panning around... YMMV as it also depends on good recordings.
I was wondering if I would add woofers, or just deal with a sub.
I happen to have 2 subs. One 300w commercial Yamaha box, and a DIY horn with the TB W8-740Q inside.
I've always had trouble integrating the two. Everyone keeps saying that 2 (or more) subs are better than one, but even though my subs are positioned in different places along the front wall, they never played nicely with each other.
I was reading an article where the owner was using multiple subs, and got a better response when one of the subs phase was flipped.
Well... epiphany!
I flipped the phase on the horn sub, and everything smoothed itself out!
Somehow, even though spaced apart, the subs in phase were exciting the same nodes in the room. Once the phase was flipped on one, it filled the dips of the first one, without making the peaks worse, even smoothing them a bit.
Now, while the mic was set at the listening position, I timed aligned the subs to the W6 and it started to look, and sound, very good.
Had a long listening session that was very satisfying.
One day, I'll tackle the last remnants... the 20 to 30 Hz portion of the spectrum. I'm sure the neighbors will really hate me then! But for now, I'm quite pleased with my XO and sub integration.
These measurements have 2 small EQ notches to reduce the most annoying peaks in my room. Nothing major, about -3dBs, that went a long way to make it more enjoyable.
Now, I really like the soundstage these W6-2313 are putting out there.
The sound image is very 3D, extending far outside the physical speakers, but also fore and aft, making the singer stand in front of the speakers and the instruments panning around... YMMV as it also depends on good recordings.
I was wondering if I would add woofers, or just deal with a sub.
I happen to have 2 subs. One 300w commercial Yamaha box, and a DIY horn with the TB W8-740Q inside.
I've always had trouble integrating the two. Everyone keeps saying that 2 (or more) subs are better than one, but even though my subs are positioned in different places along the front wall, they never played nicely with each other.
I was reading an article where the owner was using multiple subs, and got a better response when one of the subs phase was flipped.
Well... epiphany!
I flipped the phase on the horn sub, and everything smoothed itself out!
Somehow, even though spaced apart, the subs in phase were exciting the same nodes in the room. Once the phase was flipped on one, it filled the dips of the first one, without making the peaks worse, even smoothing them a bit.
Now, while the mic was set at the listening position, I timed aligned the subs to the W6 and it started to look, and sound, very good.
Had a long listening session that was very satisfying.
One day, I'll tackle the last remnants... the 20 to 30 Hz portion of the spectrum. I'm sure the neighbors will really hate me then! But for now, I'm quite pleased with my XO and sub integration.
These measurements have 2 small EQ notches to reduce the most annoying peaks in my room. Nothing major, about -3dBs, that went a long way to make it more enjoyable.
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Murat, get yourself a pair of w-8 1808, or w8-1772, and be done with it !
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I tried with a 2uF cap on the tweeter only. Pretty bad. Added an inductor, forgot the values... might have been a 0.65mH or a 0.315mH. Still no.
This is not a driver that will be easy to deal with with a simple cap and be done with it.
But, with a little more work, it does provide enjoyment.
My advice, give them some time to play before you pass judgment or make final decision on your setup.
They really opened up after a month of playing. But at first, it was like the tweeter was fighting against the woofer... really weird.
Since you can't time-align these, unless you go digital, they'll always play a little against each other.
But, as I have mentioned, letting them play for a month, and they have started to do good things. They've started to feel more like a single unit.
Compared to full range drivers (I have from 3" to 15"), I'd say the biggest improvement is the wide sweet spot they provide, having a dedicated tweeter. FR drivers always seem to have a much smaller sweet spot. It's nice to walk around the room and still hear the highs. Or having some friends on the couch, and not having to switch places to have the best sound.
I don't feel that the Point-Source thing is that much better than a well time aligned setup of a woofer and a tweeter on a baffle.
That said, I've had big grins listening to my music lately using these coax drivers!
That said, I've had big grins listening to my music lately using these coax drivers!
That's encouraging. I have been eyeing up those TB coaxials for a while, but somehow could not pull the trigger.
I'm in the process of building two spherical enclosures each with a 2'-dia spherical outer shell (made of papier-mâché) and a cylindrical inner 8-liter enclosure. The purpose is to test whether the ball-shaped enclosure, without sharp edges or corners, could provide improved imaging and soundstage. My original plan is to put TB W5-2143 full-range drivers in those spherical enclosures, but now I am thinking about getting the TB 6" coaxials for this application instead. I bet they will look striking in the spherical enclosures -- like huge eyeballs.
can one subjectively improve the blend with an all-pass network for the tweeter?
Ladder delay network using SoundEasy – Audio Judgement
Ladder delay network using SoundEasy – Audio Judgement
I am interested in getting this pair of Tang Band to experiment as a pair of near field speakers. Your FR curve seems to look very good. Rather than reinventing the wheel would be able to share with us your x-over network once you are happy with it? Thks.
Sure.
So far, it is the same as the last one I posted.
Since they have been playing for a while, I'll take another measurement to see if things have changed.
But my XO will ultimately for my room and my enclosure. Yours will surely vary from mine a bit.
I'd say go with that XO I posted, and adjust Rs according to taste.
I was going to try an enclosure with the looks of the LS50, but the pieces of hinoki wood (camphor wood) I have are 30x33cm. Not big enough.
I would love to show them off with the "flower" design Mattes have with his OB project, but I can't come up with a design that includes the flower in front, and the closed enclosure behind.
I have some XPS foam to try and sculpt something. We'll see how it goes.
Or maybe I could do the whole box in minicell.... a soft panel enclosure.
or just stick with wood....
Options, options, options....
I would love to show them off with the "flower" design Mattes have with his OB project, but I can't come up with a design that includes the flower in front, and the closed enclosure behind.
I have some XPS foam to try and sculpt something. We'll see how it goes.
Or maybe I could do the whole box in minicell.... a soft panel enclosure.
or just stick with wood....
Options, options, options....
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