Yes I lost that article, just speaking of memory.
But when I look at TAD responses (which were the above given examples of diameter and break ups, you can find many in google) and compare to the response curves of others (e.g. scanspeak), theres somehow an octave missing.
If you question the importance, then you can also take aluminum or whatever.
Saves you hundreds or thousands of bucks, coz shifting the resonance out of the drivers bandwidth or 20-20k range is not anything groundbraking new or never-achieved before beryl.
But when I look at TAD responses (which were the above given examples of diameter and break ups, you can find many in google) and compare to the response curves of others (e.g. scanspeak), theres somehow an octave missing.
If you question the importance, then you can also take aluminum or whatever.
Saves you hundreds or thousands of bucks, coz shifting the resonance out of the drivers bandwidth or 20-20k range is not anything groundbraking new or never-achieved before beryl.
Josh:
An octave missing? Do you mean at the top or bottom? At the top, I don't know what tweeter you care saying is missing anything. Certainly not from the SB, and while the SS are a little less smooth measuring (but very smooth sounding) they are not missing an octave anywhere.
The benefits of Be in measurements should be in the time domain anyway, not the FR, but like any technology, the implementation matters a great deal.
If you want something that is great performing and much less expensive, the ScanSpeak R2604 ring radiators are really great alternatives, though with narrow dispersion. Just below this is the often mentioned Peerless XT25 variant.
Best,
E
An octave missing? Do you mean at the top or bottom? At the top, I don't know what tweeter you care saying is missing anything. Certainly not from the SB, and while the SS are a little less smooth measuring (but very smooth sounding) they are not missing an octave anywhere.
The benefits of Be in measurements should be in the time domain anyway, not the FR, but like any technology, the implementation matters a great deal.
If you want something that is great performing and much less expensive, the ScanSpeak R2604 ring radiators are really great alternatives, though with narrow dispersion. Just below this is the often mentioned Peerless XT25 variant.
Best,
E
Josh,
Then I gently suggest you don't call manufacturers liars without evidence, particularly since evidence to the contrary is freely available.
An octave missing? What octave? Which TAD speaker, or speakers, specifically, are you referring to? Please be precise: you are the one making claims ergo it is your responsibility to support them. I'm not going to muck about searching for something that you might (or might not, for all I know) be referring to. Equally, I assume that whatever tweeter you might be referring to was designed for the same purposes as those referenced here? If not, then it's apples / oranges anyway.
None of the tweeters that use the Materion / Truextent domes (afaik Scan, SB, TLab, Seas) appear to exhibit significant resonances below 40KHz; their impedance plots, which would indicate such deviations, are clear in all the measurements that I've seen, nor have I seen any sign of significant HD etc. spikes. The drivers do have different responses that reflect different design priorities elsewhere -like all drivers tend to. As has been noted, the main object behind these units is to avoid resonances & the related HD in & near the audio band, and the ones referred to achieve this very well.
Then I gently suggest you don't call manufacturers liars without evidence, particularly since evidence to the contrary is freely available.
An octave missing? What octave? Which TAD speaker, or speakers, specifically, are you referring to? Please be precise: you are the one making claims ergo it is your responsibility to support them. I'm not going to muck about searching for something that you might (or might not, for all I know) be referring to. Equally, I assume that whatever tweeter you might be referring to was designed for the same purposes as those referenced here? If not, then it's apples / oranges anyway.
None of the tweeters that use the Materion / Truextent domes (afaik Scan, SB, TLab, Seas) appear to exhibit significant resonances below 40KHz; their impedance plots, which would indicate such deviations, are clear in all the measurements that I've seen, nor have I seen any sign of significant HD etc. spikes. The drivers do have different responses that reflect different design priorities elsewhere -like all drivers tend to. As has been noted, the main object behind these units is to avoid resonances & the related HD in & near the audio band, and the ones referred to achieve this very well.
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Where are you finding all these non-Be tweeters that don't break up until past 50khz? Because that is not at all the norm.
I believe he was referring to Be domes, that they should not break up until past 50kHz.
@5thelement: thats correct
@scott: i was just carelessly throwing an observation into the discussion. Im little too lazy/busy at the moment to sit down for research and serving the proofs, sorry for that. But im not insisting in being taken serious about a major product flaw the world needs to be warned about. And never called any manufacturers liar, calm down boy! Are you working there??
All I wanna say, watch out for the magnitude, it tells you the breakup points. And compare it to TAD curves. Their beryl is for sure authentic. If any driver has a similar or even smaller diaphragm than TAD but doesnt reach as high, you should question the performance. At least when you aim to pay hell of money. Should pay off...
@scott: i was just carelessly throwing an observation into the discussion. Im little too lazy/busy at the moment to sit down for research and serving the proofs, sorry for that. But im not insisting in being taken serious about a major product flaw the world needs to be warned about. And never called any manufacturers liar, calm down boy! Are you working there??
All I wanna say, watch out for the magnitude, it tells you the breakup points. And compare it to TAD curves. Their beryl is for sure authentic. If any driver has a similar or even smaller diaphragm than TAD but doesnt reach as high, you should question the performance. At least when you aim to pay hell of money. Should pay off...
You may recall making this statement:
Since you posted this remark and have continued to make insinuations about non-TAD units, it is reasonable to conclude you are calling the manufacturers of other units liars. It would be difficult to interpret it otherwise.
I have. I'm familiar with a couple of TAD units. Interestingly, several appear to share similar traits to some of the drivers mentioned here, e.g. a rise in response around 30KHz, without any sign of significant deviations in the impedance etc. curves around that point, suggesting it is unlikely to be a dome resonance. I'm also still wondering about the missing 'octave' you mention non-TAD units suffer from. Since the Seas, Scan, TLab & SB units can all hit roughly 40KHz (exceed in the latter case), are you saying that an unspecified but exactly equivalent TAD unit or units are managing ~80KHz with similar performance in all other areas? If so, that's very interesting. Which unit, how much does it cost, and where can I find the supporting measurements?
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Member
Joined 2008
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Joined 2008
Troels Gravesen and others have shown measurements of the SB acoustics alu dome, it exhibits extremely low distortion figures. Although I have not listened to this dome, it could very well be the best price / performance dome around these days
SBAcoustics-tweeters
Beryllium one
TW29BN
SBAcoustics-tweeters
Beryllium one
TW29BN
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Beryllium?
Interesting quote from a US speaker manufacturer:
Important Note: did you know sound waves travel through beryllium over 37 times faster than sound waves travel through air?! Talk about a mismatch and a serious conflict of musical interests! Sounds travel through pulps and textiles at or less than the speed of sound through air so air always wins the race over the transverse propagation of the vibrations through the cone. In my opinion, beryllium pistons are a giant no-no as the vibrating source of your sound.
For example: in a beryllium-based acoustic device, the vibrations travel through the beryllium transversely and internally from the voice coil source to the outer cone edge 37 times faster than the sound can radiate from the inner-center of the cone to the outer edge of the cone through the air. Anyone care to listen to a solid beryllium or magnesium violin? Highly doubtful.
Since a couple of days I listen to a pair of ATC SCM11 speakers with soft dome tweeters.
Nothing to wish! It's all in getting things well together.
Interesting quote from a US speaker manufacturer:
Important Note: did you know sound waves travel through beryllium over 37 times faster than sound waves travel through air?! Talk about a mismatch and a serious conflict of musical interests! Sounds travel through pulps and textiles at or less than the speed of sound through air so air always wins the race over the transverse propagation of the vibrations through the cone. In my opinion, beryllium pistons are a giant no-no as the vibrating source of your sound.
For example: in a beryllium-based acoustic device, the vibrations travel through the beryllium transversely and internally from the voice coil source to the outer cone edge 37 times faster than the sound can radiate from the inner-center of the cone to the outer edge of the cone through the air. Anyone care to listen to a solid beryllium or magnesium violin? Highly doubtful.
Since a couple of days I listen to a pair of ATC SCM11 speakers with soft dome tweeters.
Nothing to wish! It's all in getting things well together.
Beryllium has an advantage of being lighter and stronger than aluminium. Its bending modes are also higher in frequency. But...I fail to see the benefit of these tweeters except for the companies selling them. While supposed to benefit from their weight to strength ratio, both the Scanspeak and SB Acoustics domes have higher mms than most fabric tweeters. The only benefit is their rigidity as the dome center won`t dance around like on soft ones but the modes of the hard dome would be a challenge as the surround would have little effect on them. Not sure why but these are kept driven with large voice coils right at the surround boundary. I`m not really sure if they`re worth the money, especially considering how close in price they are to the Raal variety.
Pieter,
Yeah, there's always some one with a story about why X technology is great or it's not great.
Truth is, I've heard very outstanding Be tweeters, and very mediocre one's. Same for soft domes too.
I have never heard a violin made of soft silk either, so that's one analogy I hate. Speakers and musical instruments are designed differently for a reason.
Best,
E
Yeah, there's always some one with a story about why X technology is great or it's not great.
Truth is, I've heard very outstanding Be tweeters, and very mediocre one's. Same for soft domes too.
I have never heard a violin made of soft silk either, so that's one analogy I hate. Speakers and musical instruments are designed differently for a reason.
Best,
E
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I agree that's a silly analogy. The violin plays the entire musical freq. spectrum. The tweeter only kicks in on the upper freq. range. By the way, why don't they make red color tweeter like red Ferrari? I'd love to have my drivers all red. Red midbass and red tweeter would look quite fashionable.
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