I am planning to build a small 2 Way bookshelf for my sister. I already have tweeters I would like to use, Css LD22, they can be crossed over as low as 2.5kHz.
These won't be used for critical listening so more of a fun but still reasonable sound is desired. Would like to get extension down to 40 or 50 Hz. A bit of a bump in the bass response would not be a bad thing. The enclosure would be ported as required.
So I am looking to find a suitable Midwoofer available from solen.ca (I am Canadian). Would prefer to spend less than 60 each and also have reasonable aesthetics. The Dayton Rs150 looks good but I would definitely take other suggestions.
These won't be used for critical listening so more of a fun but still reasonable sound is desired. Would like to get extension down to 40 or 50 Hz. A bit of a bump in the bass response would not be a bad thing. The enclosure would be ported as required.
So I am looking to find a suitable Midwoofer available from solen.ca (I am Canadian). Would prefer to spend less than 60 each and also have reasonable aesthetics. The Dayton Rs150 looks good but I would definitely take other suggestions.
They might be for fun, but there's no excuse for hack work. 😀
Where do you want to go? I really don't know too much about the CSS tweeter except it's a 22mm soft dome which comes in a couple of versions. I hope it's at least 87dB efficiency.
BTW, sad to hear that CSS are having to throw in the towel. Due to health problems.
What I'm getting at, is there's an infinite number of solutions here. Anything between 8" bass and 5" bass ought to be doable.
DIY-Loudspeakers
It's a spectrum, you see. I like 8" bass with a small tweeter around 3kHz crossover myself. Bit of guts at the bass end. No need for subwoofers, TBH, I don't warm to soft domes. Prefer metal. But Spendor use a 22mm SEAS 22TFF softie here with their usual polycones. And they are no mugs.
Where do you want to go? I really don't know too much about the CSS tweeter except it's a 22mm soft dome which comes in a couple of versions. I hope it's at least 87dB efficiency.
BTW, sad to hear that CSS are having to throw in the towel. Due to health problems.
What I'm getting at, is there's an infinite number of solutions here. Anything between 8" bass and 5" bass ought to be doable.
DIY-Loudspeakers
It's a spectrum, you see. I like 8" bass with a small tweeter around 3kHz crossover myself. Bit of guts at the bass end. No need for subwoofers, TBH, I don't warm to soft domes. Prefer metal. But Spendor use a 22mm SEAS 22TFF softie here with their usual polycones. And they are no mugs.
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The sensitivity of the LD22 is 89 dB. I would have no qualms going to an 8" driver for the extra low end kick provided it can be crossed over effectively. As well, the crossover may actually be as low as 2kHz, not 2.5kHz as I originally posted.
I'm confident in the LD22 as I have it paired with VWR126X from Css in my 5.1 rig and I find it quite pleasing.
What Midwoofer would you recommend in the 7 or 8 inch territory?
I'm confident in the LD22 as I have it paired with VWR126X from Css in my 5.1 rig and I find it quite pleasing.
What Midwoofer would you recommend in the 7 or 8 inch territory?
Funny coincidence, the RS150 was going to be my first suggestion.
You can get a nice strong output in the mid 40's in 14 liters.
The 6" SB_Acoustics SB17NRXC35-8 is $58 at Madisound.
88db @2.83V sensitivity, and produces
-F3 ~43Hz in 0.75cuft volume,
-F3 ~49Hz in 0.5cuft volume
Popular 2kHz crossover on a flat baffle with 1" tweeter off-center mounting:
BW3 at 2kHz on tweeter like LD22 or SB26STC
BW3 at 2kHz on SB17
You could also experiment with reversing the tweeter's BW3 polarity connection to reduce the phase shift.
There are several threads with FRD and ZMA files for the SB17. Using Baffle Edge Diffraction Simulator -plus- Frequency Response Modeler, both by Jeff Bagby, would allow you to equalize your FRD files to your baffle shape for decent XSIM initial crossover design.
88db @2.83V sensitivity, and produces
-F3 ~43Hz in 0.75cuft volume,
-F3 ~49Hz in 0.5cuft volume
Popular 2kHz crossover on a flat baffle with 1" tweeter off-center mounting:
BW3 at 2kHz on tweeter like LD22 or SB26STC
BW3 at 2kHz on SB17
You could also experiment with reversing the tweeter's BW3 polarity connection to reduce the phase shift.
There are several threads with FRD and ZMA files for the SB17. Using Baffle Edge Diffraction Simulator -plus- Frequency Response Modeler, both by Jeff Bagby, would allow you to equalize your FRD files to your baffle shape for decent XSIM initial crossover design.
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Typically, peerless are very nice, power limited, but also need a lot of volume to go down deep. If you can give them an ideal enclosure they would make a good budget choice.
SB has tons of fans too! Never heard any.
E
SB has tons of fans too! Never heard any.
E
Have you considered the smokin' deal at CSS on the Criton 1TD? It uses that tweeter and their very own 7" midbass. Sealed 12L, F3 60hz or so.
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Creative Sound - Product Details
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Creative Sound - Product Details
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If you trust SPL accuracy from the CSS measurements on the L22 tweeter, you would expect ~82db @ 2.83V sensitivity in a completed design. Without additional attenuation, a Zmin of 3.4 ohms comes from the tweeter circuit.
Have you seen any cool used stuff in your area?
Have you seen any cool used stuff in your area?
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There we are. A broad spectrum of goodish drivers... probably reflecting our member's current wish lists. 🙂
The Peerless 830860 is a nice 5" driver.
PEERLESS - Page 6 of 8 - Solen Électronique Inc.
Particularly if you have a plan on how to use it, and a small room:
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
The CSS kit can't be bad in 6":
Creative Sound - Product Details
I'd consider the lively SB Acoustics too difficult without a huge investment of time.
In 8", and a big room required really, say 4mX4m at least, there are few better ideas than a well-behaved woofer like this:
H1659-08 U22REX/P-SL
H1471-08 CA22RNY
I borrow Harbeth M30.1 ideas these days with 8" drivers, below. The recessed woofer and reverse polarity tweeter is pure BBC and pure genius. No Mickey Mouse first order crossovers for me. Cabinets, we could talk about all day, but look up light ply construction with damping panels if interested. The bass coil size is a slightly moveable feast depending on the woofer and your room acoustics.
The Peerless 830860 is a nice 5" driver.
PEERLESS - Page 6 of 8 - Solen Électronique Inc.
Particularly if you have a plan on how to use it, and a small room:
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
The CSS kit can't be bad in 6":
Creative Sound - Product Details
I'd consider the lively SB Acoustics too difficult without a huge investment of time.
In 8", and a big room required really, say 4mX4m at least, there are few better ideas than a well-behaved woofer like this:
H1659-08 U22REX/P-SL
H1471-08 CA22RNY
I borrow Harbeth M30.1 ideas these days with 8" drivers, below. The recessed woofer and reverse polarity tweeter is pure BBC and pure genius. No Mickey Mouse first order crossovers for me. Cabinets, we could talk about all day, but look up light ply construction with damping panels if interested. The bass coil size is a slightly moveable feast depending on the woofer and your room acoustics.
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Wiggle8, I second the recommendation for the Criton 1TD kit. The kit is for a pair, with drivers, including custom crossover and components. If you don't have real crossover design capability, the kit is definitely the way to go. The LDW7 7" woofer is made by Wavecor, and the LDW7 is specified for high performance, with low distortion. For the link below, if the frequency response and phase plots shown are accurate at the listening position, then the phase relationship at the approximate 1.7k crossover is good, and the phase tracking is fine. You could do a whole lot worse.
http://creativesound.ca/pdf/Criton1TDDescription.pdf
NEW PRICE Loudspeaker Driver, CSS Model LDW-7 Low Frequency Transducer | eBay
Thanks for the recommendation for the Criton. I actually currently have a Criton 2 kit in my possession to build for my parents. Got it on sale.
I also have two other LDW7 that will be mated to Alpair 5s in a DSP crossed over FAST build for my living room. I have no doubt the MT version would be great but I was interested in developing some knowledge in passive crossover design and this seemed like a good opportunity.
I also have two other LDW7 that will be mated to Alpair 5s in a DSP crossed over FAST build for my living room. I have no doubt the MT version would be great but I was interested in developing some knowledge in passive crossover design and this seemed like a good opportunity.
For someone who isn't into critical listening, me thinks you are looking at drivers at a higher quality level than you have to. Also, as a 1st design attempt, I would be looking for an easy driver to work with, so as smooth and flat and extended FR as you can find and probably stay away from metal cones with their inherent resonant problems.
Undefined though is "small". Is it 10L, 15L or up to 20L?
My 1st 2 thoughts were the following:
Peerless SDS 6.5"
SB 16PFC25-8
Both have a pretty smooth responses and are high value drivers. The SB can work in about 15L ported but the Peerless needs about 20L. If those are too big, maybe look at the Peerless SDS 5.5" which works well in 15L but can probably get by in as low as 10L.
The Tarkus uses the 6.5" Peerless SDS as a mid in a 3-way and the Armadillos use the 5.5". Measurements of the 5.5" can be found at Zaph Audio. Both designs should give you a good starting point for the xo work for either driver too.
And ignoring the advice I gave above about metal cones, the Dayton ND140-8 will go low and give you that extra boost in the bass you mentioned, also in about 15L. Maybe a little harder to work with though due to the jagged FR.
Undefined though is "small". Is it 10L, 15L or up to 20L?
My 1st 2 thoughts were the following:
Peerless SDS 6.5"
SB 16PFC25-8
Both have a pretty smooth responses and are high value drivers. The SB can work in about 15L ported but the Peerless needs about 20L. If those are too big, maybe look at the Peerless SDS 5.5" which works well in 15L but can probably get by in as low as 10L.
The Tarkus uses the 6.5" Peerless SDS as a mid in a 3-way and the Armadillos use the 5.5". Measurements of the 5.5" can be found at Zaph Audio. Both designs should give you a good starting point for the xo work for either driver too.
And ignoring the advice I gave above about metal cones, the Dayton ND140-8 will go low and give you that extra boost in the bass you mentioned, also in about 15L. Maybe a little harder to work with though due to the jagged FR.
SB15NRX C30-8, SB26ST-C000-5, 13 liters vented, 2nd order at 2.5k 
Tried, tested, loved.... For the price can't get much better.
Tried, tested, loved.... For the price can't get much better.
Alright Wiggle8, my last comments here. You could still get the kit and change the crossovers. And you could compare your new crossover's performance to the one supplied in the kit.
I my previous post I stated:
"the phase relationship at the approximate 1.7k crossover is good, and the phase tracking is fine. You could do a whole lot worse."
Well yes, the acoustic phase tracking is "fine" and you could do "a whole lot worse". However, one could also do better with the acoustic phase tracking in the 1.7kHz to 5kHz region, probably by judicially increasing the slope of the woofer crossover. The woofer acoustic crossover attenuation is around 22dB/octave, and the tweeter acoustic crossover attenuation is around 12 dB/octave. When developing a crossover, crossover point acoustical phase matching, acoustical phase tracking in the crossover region, and summed frequency response are juggled back and forth for a good compromise to meet the designer's criteria.
Also the woofer output is only approximately 21 to 22 dB below the tweeter in the 7kHz to 20kHz span, probably with the woofer operating in breakup. Dropping the woofer output to -40dB or so in this region would help. Several ways to accomplish this, one being the just previously mentioned increase in the woofer crossover slope.
1.7kHz in the CSS Criton seems an awfully low crossover for a little 22mm tweeter... 😕
Jeff Bagby went much higher in the CSS Triton kit with a 25mm, albeit with smaller bass units:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/220592-css-next-generation-high-resolution-triton-kit-designed-jeff-bagby.html
Jeff Bagby went much higher in the CSS Triton kit with a 25mm, albeit with smaller bass units:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/220592-css-next-generation-high-resolution-triton-kit-designed-jeff-bagby.html
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