Hi All,
I've been lurking around and really impressed with the folks here. I'm sure this is a common question but...
I'm very experienced designing and building speakers - as of maybe ten years ago. The bug bit and I could use some speakers, so I've decided to do an active powered crossover but I'm having trouble picking drivers. I bought a few woofers and tweeters/subs to test then realized 'my brands' had all disappeared but kept their names, and my samples were not-great.
I usually play at low-mid volumes but may, in some cases push them harder. I was thinking of a 12" sub, two 6-7" woofers, and a 1.25" tweeter per side plus the same without the sub for surrounds. I really want a clean full-range. Oh, and my wife is a professional classical French horn player.
My old preference was a crossover at about 2khz and maybe 100?
I've also got a few questions...
1) my assumption was that porting the sub, at least, was a good idea for efficiency but I mainly see sealed discussion. I know good ports are non-trivial, but.
2) I see a lot of really low Vas woofer/subwoofers. What's the tradeoff? I'd have thought efficiency but their ratings seem usual.
I'm tending towards Dayton audio drivers just for value. The couple I've got seem ok.
Thanks,
Mark
I've been lurking around and really impressed with the folks here. I'm sure this is a common question but...
I'm very experienced designing and building speakers - as of maybe ten years ago. The bug bit and I could use some speakers, so I've decided to do an active powered crossover but I'm having trouble picking drivers. I bought a few woofers and tweeters/subs to test then realized 'my brands' had all disappeared but kept their names, and my samples were not-great.
I usually play at low-mid volumes but may, in some cases push them harder. I was thinking of a 12" sub, two 6-7" woofers, and a 1.25" tweeter per side plus the same without the sub for surrounds. I really want a clean full-range. Oh, and my wife is a professional classical French horn player.
My old preference was a crossover at about 2khz and maybe 100?
I've also got a few questions...
1) my assumption was that porting the sub, at least, was a good idea for efficiency but I mainly see sealed discussion. I know good ports are non-trivial, but.
2) I see a lot of really low Vas woofer/subwoofers. What's the tradeoff? I'd have thought efficiency but their ratings seem usual.
I'm tending towards Dayton audio drivers just for value. The couple I've got seem ok.
Thanks,
Mark
Last edited:
Have a look through Troels site for some ideas:
DIY-Loudspeakers
(personally, I'd go for SEAS drivers...)
DIY-Loudspeakers
(personally, I'd go for SEAS drivers...)
Thanks. I just took a quick look and the designs look nice.
But, I'm a little confused by his driver choices. A $400 tweeter (T29CF400)? Really? Does that really sound that much better than the couple of soft domes that I've been trying out - for example the T25CF-001 ? I'm willing to buy one and check it out but I'm dubious.
But, I'm a little confused by his driver choices. A $400 tweeter (T29CF400)? Really? Does that really sound that much better than the couple of soft domes that I've been trying out - for example the T25CF-001 ? I'm willing to buy one and check it out but I'm dubious.
Hi Mark,
modern speaker units of any respectable manufacturer are good
enough to play remarkably well, if you know what your job is with them.
You might want to check whether TS parameters work in your favor
and then act accordingly.
I reckon a practical solution suited to your needs would be an electronic
XO filter between sub and satellite, and a passive XO filter for midbass
and tweeter. This way you'll avoid messing with huge passive filter parts
and networks to flatten impedance peaks.
p.s. I am all for good value drivers
modern speaker units of any respectable manufacturer are good
enough to play remarkably well, if you know what your job is with them.
You might want to check whether TS parameters work in your favor
and then act accordingly.
I reckon a practical solution suited to your needs would be an electronic
XO filter between sub and satellite, and a passive XO filter for midbass
and tweeter. This way you'll avoid messing with huge passive filter parts
and networks to flatten impedance peaks.
p.s. I am all for good value drivers
They are both nice tweeters
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/excel/pdfdataheet/e0040_t29cf002_crecsendo_datasheet.pdf https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...29cf-002-e0040-crescendo-fabric-dome-tweeter/
http://www.seas.no/images/stories/excel/pdfdataheet/e0006_t25cf001_datasheet.pdf https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/seas-soft-dome-tweeters/seas-excel-t25cf-001-e0006-tweeter/
but you will be probably listening to the electronics of your amp and mains having in mind you are using the right crossover.
D'Appolito configuration by Joseph D'Appolito and Troels
Speaky,
You need to check also a little about the D'Appolito configuration i.e. Advantages of D'Appolito configuration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5qBl-r0zao
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Proteus_copy.pdf
Vifa C17WH-
SB Acoustics :: 5" SB13PFC25-08
SEAS Prestige CA15RLY (H1216) 5.5"
SB Acoustics :: 5" SB15NRXC30-8
Satori MW16P-8 6" Egyptian Papyrus
ScanSpeak Classic 18W/8545 7" Mid Woofer
Dayton 8" PM220-8 Neo
SEAS CB17RCY
SEAS CA17RCY
Living Voice Auditorium: link
6moons audio reviews: Living Voice Auditorium
Auditorium, Avatar, OBX-R2, OBX-RW Loudspeakers | Product Range | Living Voice
Living Voice OBX-RW pdf
Classic Vifa Drivers Built by Scan-Speak P13WH-00-08 SS pdf (Dunlavy SuperMid)
Tymphany P13WH-00 5" Woofer
Vifa Tiefmittel-/Tieftöner
D'Appolito configuration: link
Re: Advantages of D'Appollito configuration - Kal Rubinson - Speaker Asylum
Biro Technology
Last but not least, check also Peerless and FaitalPro e.g.
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 6PR122 with Mms 11.7g and Le 0.15mH.
Speaky,
You need to check also a little about the D'Appolito configuration i.e. Advantages of D'Appolito configuration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5qBl-r0zao
Zaph|Audio SB12.3, SB Acoustics 12", 3-Way
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Proteus_copy.pdf
Vifa C17WH-
SB Acoustics :: 5" SB13PFC25-08
SEAS Prestige CA15RLY (H1216) 5.5"
SB Acoustics :: 5" SB15NRXC30-8
Satori MW16P-8 6" Egyptian Papyrus
ScanSpeak Classic 18W/8545 7" Mid Woofer
Dayton 8" PM220-8 Neo
SEAS CB17RCY
SEAS CA17RCY
Living Voice Auditorium: link
6moons audio reviews: Living Voice Auditorium
Auditorium, Avatar, OBX-R2, OBX-RW Loudspeakers | Product Range | Living Voice
Living Voice OBX-RW pdf
Classic Vifa Drivers Built by Scan-Speak P13WH-00-08 SS pdf (Dunlavy SuperMid)
Tymphany P13WH-00 5" Woofer
Vifa Tiefmittel-/Tieftöner
D'Appolito configuration: link
Re: Advantages of D'Appollito configuration - Kal Rubinson - Speaker Asylum
Biro Technology
Last but not least, check also Peerless and FaitalPro e.g.
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 6PR122 with Mms 11.7g and Le 0.15mH.
I've measured a few Asian manufactured drivers as being out of spec. For example, I got the 12 inch woofers as used in Zaph's kit (the first one that user 'inductor' links above). The Qts was well over the advertised value. They are meant to be 0.4Qts, I get over 0.5 after prolonged break in. This is all four of the drivers I bought, which appear (from serial numbers) to be from two production runs. Chinese vifa seem to be much worse, monstrously out of spec.
From what I have had, some recent manufacture Peerless and Fostex do measure on spec, despite being made in [edit - India and] China, so at least some companies can get it right, some of the time.
From what I have had, some recent manufacture Peerless and Fostex do measure on spec, despite being made in [edit - India and] China, so at least some companies can get it right, some of the time.
Last edited:
Thanks, both of you.
Actually my last speakers were mtm's and that's my plans for these as well. Although I'm switching to a digital crossover - which among other pluses lets me set mtm directivity. I also like the extra dynamic range of an mtm. I'm comfy designing a box (this'll be my 10th design I think). I'm planning 4-ways - one crossover channel per midwoofer.
I've also used 8545's but many of these folks have changed and the drivers don't exist or are clearly different. I bought one pair peerless driver 830990 to test. I like the thinner baffle.
Vifa was my go-to value but now, maybe not so much. I did get one classic tweeter to test. Anyway thanks for the tips i'll check some of the links.
Actually my last speakers were mtm's and that's my plans for these as well. Although I'm switching to a digital crossover - which among other pluses lets me set mtm directivity. I also like the extra dynamic range of an mtm. I'm comfy designing a box (this'll be my 10th design I think). I'm planning 4-ways - one crossover channel per midwoofer.
I've also used 8545's but many of these folks have changed and the drivers don't exist or are clearly different. I bought one pair peerless driver 830990 to test. I like the thinner baffle.
Vifa was my go-to value but now, maybe not so much. I did get one classic tweeter to test. Anyway thanks for the tips i'll check some of the links.
Peerless drivers should be a good safe option to base MTMs (or MMTs) upon.
I got 830875s last year which looked great, performed well, and were right on spec.
I ran mine as helpers for 4" wide band drivers. Troels matches his with Scan Speak tweeters.
Regarding woofers with low VAS, unless I knew which ones you mean, my guess is that the maker is simply fudging the efficiency specification.
In my experience, there are no budget large (12" or 15") woofers with honest specs (P Audio, SB Acoustics, other Asian stuff). Dayton may be better. If you have test equipment, I'd suggest buying drivers from any suspicious vendor with advertised Qts at the low end of your ideal range, since the actual Qts value will probably be higher.
I got 830875s last year which looked great, performed well, and were right on spec.
I ran mine as helpers for 4" wide band drivers. Troels matches his with Scan Speak tweeters.
Regarding woofers with low VAS, unless I knew which ones you mean, my guess is that the maker is simply fudging the efficiency specification.
In my experience, there are no budget large (12" or 15") woofers with honest specs (P Audio, SB Acoustics, other Asian stuff). Dayton may be better. If you have test equipment, I'd suggest buying drivers from any suspicious vendor with advertised Qts at the low end of your ideal range, since the actual Qts value will probably be higher.
Hi there. I'm thinking of a similar project, but unlike you this is my first build. I'd like to build a 3 way similar is style to the Quested V3110. It has a 10" Volt Woofer, a vifa dome midrange and a Morel tweeter. I already have a smaller pair of active Quested's which have the same MDT-30 tweeter, so I'd like something a bit different. I'll be using an external dbx drive rack 3 way digital crossover which should be great for experimenting.
It's extremely expensive to get drivers here to New Zealand , especially from Europe, so any suggestions welcomed also. I'm thinking along the Dayton line as well….but that may not get that all important midrange right.
I have a pair of ATC T16's( another active 2 way) and Spendor SP1's in the lounge, so I don't want to want to waste my time building something that can't compete…..cheers
It's extremely expensive to get drivers here to New Zealand , especially from Europe, so any suggestions welcomed also. I'm thinking along the Dayton line as well….but that may not get that all important midrange right.
I have a pair of ATC T16's( another active 2 way) and Spendor SP1's in the lounge, so I don't want to want to waste my time building something that can't compete…..cheers
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.