I need to build another set of speakers. I was looking at Linkwitz LXMini and Nao Note II RS because I have never built an OB project and I am curious as to the resulting sound. I was leaning to the LXMini because my wife does not always appreciate my woodworking abilities. I listen to modern jazz about half the time and really want to be able to sense the horns but am afraid the dipole system will not have the low end to carry the bass and drums. SL seems to discourage adding a sub to the LXMini on his website.
Listening room is 12ft X 17 ft.
In your opinions will either of these designs work for me?
I am replacing zaph za5.2s sealed in 7 liters over sealed RS270s in 50 liters which one side has had an unfortunate incident.
Listening room is 12ft X 17 ft.
In your opinions will either of these designs work for me?
I am replacing zaph za5.2s sealed in 7 liters over sealed RS270s in 50 liters which one side has had an unfortunate incident.
Hi,
I have designed and built many speakers, 2 of them were the LXMini and Nao Note II "clones", my own designs. The detailed designs are very different from either of them, but the engineering configurations are very similar.
If you like speakers with very "large" sound stage both of them would be suitable, and I should add both of them sounded very good to excellent. You will not be disappointed.
Having said that the LXMini is more suitable for small to medium size room and the NaO to medium to large room. From your room dimensions I would consider it as medium size, if either speakers would be suitable. Points to consider:
1. If you just want to build just one pair speakers and does not have to meet any budgetary constraints then go for NaO, e.g. you need many amplifiers, etc.
2. If you have a budget to meet, its a simpler system to start with and may want to upgrade later go for LXMini.
Really both speakers sound very good indeed. They kill the MOST box speakers death.
Also refer to my image attached.
I have designed and built many speakers, 2 of them were the LXMini and Nao Note II "clones", my own designs. The detailed designs are very different from either of them, but the engineering configurations are very similar.
If you like speakers with very "large" sound stage both of them would be suitable, and I should add both of them sounded very good to excellent. You will not be disappointed.
Having said that the LXMini is more suitable for small to medium size room and the NaO to medium to large room. From your room dimensions I would consider it as medium size, if either speakers would be suitable. Points to consider:
1. If you just want to build just one pair speakers and does not have to meet any budgetary constraints then go for NaO, e.g. you need many amplifiers, etc.
2. If you have a budget to meet, its a simpler system to start with and may want to upgrade later go for LXMini.
Really both speakers sound very good indeed. They kill the MOST box speakers death.
Also refer to my image attached.
Attachments
Hi,
FWIW I don't go along with SL's ramblings on this speaker,
its completely inconsistent with the Pluto subwooofers.
Its right with the default DSP EQ, and a lazy throwaway
comment, allthough he's right for most people DSP EQ
is much simpler than adding subs, the Pluto approach
is ignored, and it by definition goes louder in the bass.
Conversely if you don't do loud, the DSP option is great.
rgds, sreten.
FWIW I dislike the too much handwaving involved for the
LXMini without hard facts, like the utter waffle about the
controlling of rear radiation which seems to me best guess,
and an utterly contrived arrangement to suit the design.
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finished a pair of LXmini a few days ago. first impression is the holographic imaging, spacious and uncolored. quite nice with acoustic music, jazz etc.
given their size they do have some bass weight also.
the compromised portion i feel is the tweeter performence, some breakup and a bit of shouting is noticable from time to time, but generely not a big problem...
will they do the trick for you? i have no idea, depends on what you are used to.
check out this site also, he`s got some cheap dipoles, active/passive combos etc.
Gainphile
given their size they do have some bass weight also.
the compromised portion i feel is the tweeter performence, some breakup and a bit of shouting is noticable from time to time, but generely not a big problem...
will they do the trick for you? i have no idea, depends on what you are used to.
check out this site also, he`s got some cheap dipoles, active/passive combos etc.
Gainphile
Awefully small room to be considering ob. Would make for a tight squeeze for sure.
Speakers like the lxmini will sound more ambient, all around good sound not just at the listening position. Having built similar long before the pluto can say I've listened to this type of speaker in a large range of room sizes/shapes. The size of the lxmini's lend themselves to medium to small rooms due to spl and low end limitations.
A year or so ago mocked up a similar design using two upfiring 6.5"s and an amt, active minidsp. This was a refresher/reevaluation of my skills and for the sheer need for data for another more substantial design. The ones mocked up did not require a sub, bottom end was usable to 26Hz.
Sreten, if you have the opportunity, hear them.
Speakers like the lxmini will sound more ambient, all around good sound not just at the listening position. Having built similar long before the pluto can say I've listened to this type of speaker in a large range of room sizes/shapes. The size of the lxmini's lend themselves to medium to small rooms due to spl and low end limitations.
A year or so ago mocked up a similar design using two upfiring 6.5"s and an amt, active minidsp. This was a refresher/reevaluation of my skills and for the sheer need for data for another more substantial design. The ones mocked up did not require a sub, bottom end was usable to 26Hz.
Sreten, if you have the opportunity, hear them.
Excuse me if I am a little naïve as there are many things I am still learning. Would a larger dsp (2X8) work to integrate a pair of active subs.
While I have found that I am able to resurrect my ZA5.2 I plan to still do a new build to see what can be achieved. I am also spending some time this day on Gainphile's blog.
"While I have found that I am able to resurrect my ZA5.2 I plan to still do a new build to see what can be achieved"
The type of speakers that come close to dipole in terms of sound stage is Econowave, i.e. a bass woofer and waveguide mounted tweeter or compression driver. I had also designed and built those types of speakers before, they also sounded quite good.
Sound from boxed speakers without waveguide tweeter tend to be close in the terms of its sound-stage when compared to dipole spkrs and also waveguide boxed spkrs because it has better directivity.
The type of speakers that come close to dipole in terms of sound stage is Econowave, i.e. a bass woofer and waveguide mounted tweeter or compression driver. I had also designed and built those types of speakers before, they also sounded quite good.
Sound from boxed speakers without waveguide tweeter tend to be close in the terms of its sound-stage when compared to dipole spkrs and also waveguide boxed spkrs because it has better directivity.
You could easily add bottom end to the LXmini. SL doesn't discourage it.....he just doesn't feel it's necessary in his listening environment with his program material.
By all means a user should add it if they need it. The existing Pluto+ woofer augmentation is almost turn-key for the LXmini. But other options certainly exist.
I'm not sure what "hard facts" you're looking for regarding this design that aren't already outlined on his website. Yes, it's a departure from some of his previous efforts. But so what.
Contrived arrangement? Nonsense.
Cheers,
Dave.
Open baffle is really a new listening experience when you hear it the first time.
If you haven't heard one before I would suggest having a listen to somebody else's to see if you could live with it before investing too much cash. And you could always wack a mid driver in a piece of board and have a listen. Use The Edge software to get a rough baffle shape.
As with all loudspeakers "sometimes" it can be technically brilliant but just not your cup of tea. Having said that I love my OB.
Check out this as well.. Easy build.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...-inexpensive-ob-project-46.html#post2752617to
If you haven't heard one before I would suggest having a listen to somebody else's to see if you could live with it before investing too much cash. And you could always wack a mid driver in a piece of board and have a listen. Use The Edge software to get a rough baffle shape.
As with all loudspeakers "sometimes" it can be technically brilliant but just not your cup of tea. Having said that I love my OB.
Check out this as well.. Easy build.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...-inexpensive-ob-project-46.html#post2752617to
To put it bluntly, if you are used to sealed sub then the smacks and punches will be missed sorely. I'd really go for sealed sub from 20hz to 80hz. The rest are of course... dipoles
I will agree with Gainphile. as it echoes my experience.
I have a room that is perhaps 10% larger than the OP's with a very simple 3 way active OB. The baffle is a simple flat board about 28 x 32" high. Bass is handled by a 12" woofer with modest Xmax. I have sealed subs for <50Hz duty (3 of them, actually, spread around the room). Drums are VERY lifelike.
The first time I fired up the OBs I had no subs at all and I was shocked, SHOCKED, at how much bass was coming out of these simple OBs. As I started EQing things below 50Hz I found that I was running out of woofer excursion (the voice coil smacked into the rear plate and just about scared the crap out of me). But this was only when drums got loud - as in "I can hear your hi fi outside" loud.
Since then I have gone to sealed subs for the very low end and this offers several advantages: (1) No more danger of wrecking the OB woofers when played too loud. (2) Better control of room modes as the subs are spread around the room. (3) Better visceral bass (the "smack" that Gainphile refers to).
I have a room that is perhaps 10% larger than the OP's with a very simple 3 way active OB. The baffle is a simple flat board about 28 x 32" high. Bass is handled by a 12" woofer with modest Xmax. I have sealed subs for <50Hz duty (3 of them, actually, spread around the room). Drums are VERY lifelike.
The first time I fired up the OBs I had no subs at all and I was shocked, SHOCKED, at how much bass was coming out of these simple OBs. As I started EQing things below 50Hz I found that I was running out of woofer excursion (the voice coil smacked into the rear plate and just about scared the crap out of me). But this was only when drums got loud - as in "I can hear your hi fi outside" loud.
Since then I have gone to sealed subs for the very low end and this offers several advantages: (1) No more danger of wrecking the OB woofers when played too loud. (2) Better control of room modes as the subs are spread around the room. (3) Better visceral bass (the "smack" that Gainphile refers to).
Many people are missing that LXmini is NOT DIPOLE below 1000Hz! I has a transmission line tuning for bass, just a single 6"driver. Don't expect too much bass with low distortion in large rooms. LX mini is evolution version of Pluto, a nice little speaker for small rooms and for rear channels in HT.
SL's LX521 is a full range loudspeaker for main LR channels, it has good low end capability, sub are not necessary for reasonable listening levels (realistic symphony orchestra).
SL's LX521 is a full range loudspeaker for main LR channels, it has good low end capability, sub are not necessary for reasonable listening levels (realistic symphony orchestra).
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