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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

virtually auditioning speakers - by the spec numbers.
virtually auditioning speakers - by the spec numbers.
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Old 7th February 2014, 09:11 PM   #1
EsoBOFH is offline EsoBOFH  Canada
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Default virtually auditioning speakers - by the spec numbers.

Folks,

I'm looking at building a pair of bookshelf speakers for my office. I am really looking for something with high quality sound, on a budget. My intent is to pair them with a powered subwoofer (kenwood sw103).

I have read through a number of bookshelf builds, and compared a lot of kits on offer, and I've brought it down to about 3 options.

#1. I've heard nothing but rave reviews on the Overnight Sensations. At $119, they squarely fit in my budget for initial outlay. That said, shipping adds significantly to the cost (i can't calculate it now, because it's out of stock, but shipping from PE to canada seems ridiculous).

#2. The Dayton Audio B652 are ridiculously cheap, but have been getting rave reviews. they end up being about the same cost as the other two options, once shipping is factored in. I kind of had my heart set on building something though.

#3. Option - the local guy. CSS is a short drive from me, and Bob seems like a good guy to deal with (and has been recommended by other members). He has this kit available;

CSS CHBWERT
MA CHBW-70 CSS ERT26 2 way kit (Pair)

virtually auditioning speakers - by the spec numbers.


at $110 it compares to the overnight sensations in terms of costs. I would have to build the cabinet, vs. paying for shipping from PE. the components look to be better quality.

I doubt anyone has listened to CSS kit and the Overnight sensations, such that they could give me a comparison.. but i'm having difficulty comparing the specs in a way that makes sense.

Can anyone tell me, by the numbers on the main drivers, which would you go for?

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thanks!!

Last edited by EsoBOFH; 7th February 2014 at 09:17 PM. Reason: clarity.
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Old 7th February 2014, 09:54 PM   #2
vinylkid58 is online now vinylkid58  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EsoBOFH View Post

#3. Option - the local guy. CSS is a short drive from me, and Bob seems like a good guy to deal with (and has been recommended by other members). He has this kit available;

CSS CHBWERT
MA CHBW-70 CSS ERT26 2 way kit (Pair)

at $110 it compares to the overnight sensations in terms of costs. I would have to build the cabinet, vs. paying for shipping from PE. the components look to be better quality.

I doubt anyone has listened to CSS kit and the Overnight sensations, such that they could give me a comparison.. but i'm having difficulty comparing the specs in a way that makes sense.
The CSS drivers are a known quantity, and a good value. While I haven't heard this particular kit, I've heard many other MA offerings (and also several other CSS speakers), and own a few myself. So maybe I'm a bit biased. Bob is a good guy, and will support his products if there are any issues.

I got to hear the Overnight Sensations at the local diy "fest" a couple years ago. They were not a bad sounding speaker, but were bested by a single driver Planet_10 design, based around the now OOP CSS EL70 driver.

jeff
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Old 7th February 2014, 10:07 PM   #3
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

The Dayton B652's are poor in absolute terms.

X-LS Classic kit are worth considering.

As are
Zaph|Audio - ZMV5 - MCM / Vifa 5" System
and Zaph|Audio - 4" Bargain Mini

rgds, sreten.

For an office, at a desk, with a sub I'd tend
to go for a 3" FR , or 1.5 way, YMMV.

Last edited by sreten; 7th February 2014 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 7th February 2014, 11:22 PM   #4
EsoBOFH is offline EsoBOFH  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
For an office, at a desk, with a sub I'd tend
to go for a 3" FR , or 1.5 way, YMMV.
Thanks Sreten... what's a 1.5 way?
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Old 8th February 2014, 05:18 AM   #5
PeteMcK is offline PeteMcK
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1.5 way = fullranger driver with helper woofer;
I'd say support your local guy, who has a good rep, otherwise he'll disappear & you'll have no choice but to buy Chinese drivers....

re:"Can anyone tell me, by the numbers..." - first thing to look at is a frequency response graph
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Last edited by PeteMcK; 8th February 2014 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 8th February 2014, 02:16 PM   #6
harvylogan is offline harvylogan  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcK View Post
I'd say support your local guy, who has a good rep, otherwise he'll disappear & you'll have no choice but to buy Chinese drivers....
Agreed
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Old 9th February 2014, 01:26 AM   #7
mikejennens is offline mikejennens  United States
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I have a pair of MarkAudio CHP-70's in a Planet-10-designed box I use for nearfield. I can't say enough good about them and you'd be hard pressed to find a better sounding speaker for the money. And CSS sells them. I listen to a lot of acoustic guitar and other instrumental/smooth jazz and they sound fantastic; no other way to describe them. Great for vocals too. If you're a metal head, they probably won't do it.
Overall, I'm a big fan of MarkAudio speakers.

Creative Sound - Product Details

Mike
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Old 9th February 2014, 04:09 AM   #8
Richard Ellis is offline Richard Ellis  Argentina
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Of the two drivers you want "facing off" the HiVi vs, the Mark. Running the simulator,
The HiVi performs a bit better getting you down to -3.03Db@38.37 Hz.
The Mark driver gets to -3Db@49.35 Hz.
The HiVi comes in at 10.5 liters (internal volume), The Mark, 8.7 liters.
Both ported, 47X226mm long, 47X164mm long respectively. I would bet the HiVi driver is half the price of the Mark driver!


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Old 9th February 2014, 06:44 AM   #9
EsoBOFH is offline EsoBOFH  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Ellis View Post
Of the two drivers you want "facing off" the HiVi vs, the Mark. Running the simulator,
The HiVi performs a bit better getting you down to -3.03Db@38.37 Hz.
The Mark driver gets to -3Db@49.35 Hz.
The HiVi comes in at 10.5 liters (internal volume), The Mark, 8.7 liters.
Both ported, 47X226mm long, 47X164mm long respectively. I would bet the HiVi driver is half the price of the Mark driver.
Thanks Rick - as a business analyst, number speak to me, so I appreciate the objective analysis.

That said, let me check my understanding of what these numbers are saying...

From other reading, I understand that 3Db is the threshold where humans are able to perceive a change in output/volume/sound. So, the hivi are able to get as low as 38.37 Hz before a drop in performance is audible, and the marks 49.35 Hz - so is that simply telling me the hivi have better bass response, or should I infer some other difference in quality/design/performance with these numbers?

If I'm running these guys with a sub crossed at a point higher than their bottom end, have I effectively negated the difference in performance that you've noted here?

I gather the difference in size means I can get away with a smaller enclosure with the marks?

As an aside, the marks actually come in $4 less than the hivi once I factor shipping.

Again, thanks - learning so much from all you smart guys!
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Old 9th February 2014, 07:07 AM   #10
pacificblue is offline pacificblue  Germany
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Virtual auditioning is absolutely impossible. You have got to listen to speakers to find out whether they suit your listening taste and situation. Even a frequency response diagram only tells a part of the story, and the lowest f-3 point does not automatically make it the best speaker of a group.

One word of warning: most speakers are optimised for free-standing operation, even so called bookshelf speakers. Very few have a frequency response that takes the acoustic properties into account that you get when the speakers are actually placed in a bookshelf. Bass-reflex speakers are usually not the best solution for a bookshelf. Working into half-space boosts the lower frequency regions and easily leads to boominess. The trouble is that only few shops have the possibility to put speakers into bookshelves, and speakers that are optimised for that purpose will sound horrible when freestanding, hence not sell.

A possible compromise is to buy speakers that are designed for in-wall operation and put them in a box that fits into your bookshelf.
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