It depends on your final objective.
Please give a little more information about your circumstances.
Generally 2nd order electrical with some response shaping that gives an acoustical 4th order slope is the desired target.
However, 1st order is very nice if you have EXTREMELY well behaved drivers to work with.
Please give a little more information about your circumstances.
Generally 2nd order electrical with some response shaping that gives an acoustical 4th order slope is the desired target.
However, 1st order is very nice if you have EXTREMELY well behaved drivers to work with.
Yes response can be adjusted with the crossover using a range of methods. Have a read of this thread which gives a good overview of basic crossover design:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...designing-crossovers-without-measurement.html
Its best to measure the drivers then simulate a crossover. However its always about compromise and the PC will not tell you which compromise sounds best. Its i difficult balance between frequency response, phase, dispersion, cone breakup, sensitivity.
As Einric has already said you need to give more details to get useful advice.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...designing-crossovers-without-measurement.html
Its best to measure the drivers then simulate a crossover. However its always about compromise and the PC will not tell you which compromise sounds best. Its i difficult balance between frequency response, phase, dispersion, cone breakup, sensitivity.
As Einric has already said you need to give more details to get useful advice.
Is it commonly done? you could add an analogue EQ to flatten the gradual rise couldn't you?
It is commonly done. If the rise is due to baffle loss it can be reduced with a compensation network. Increasing the size of the inductor win series with the woofer or mid range is also an option. I believe the crossover changes would produce a better solution. Simpler setup and less devices in the audio chain. Mini DSP might also be a way to go
Hi lilun,
Even for the experienced, speaker design is confusing. So, don't expect you will understand by only asking questions. If you need to ask, make sure it is something you can chew.
First, in designing we care only with acoustic slope, not electrical slopes. Many things in speaker design (zobel, bsc, xo calculator, etc) are products of the past when measurement tools are only accessible by a few.
2nd, 3rd, 4th, we choose whatever that work best to our needs or knowledge.
Fixing through the passive parts is more accurate than thru analog EQ.
Okay. Another rule, it is good to always question the "universe", but don't approach it with closed/stubborn mind such that it is become difficult to accept anything (assume this is a difficult topic such that no way you could have gotten anything right).
Next, question yourself, have you used the correct "terminologies"? Are you talking in the same meaning and direction?
When you said "gradual rise in woofer response", what is it you meant with "response"? Rise with what? Forget about "lobes" first.
Electrical slope is imaginative so has no critical importance (as to protect drivers, breakup, loving, etc). Acoustical slope is the actual slope, taking into account driver natural roll off. For example, a woofer may naturally roll off around 7kHz with second order slope. You can add first order electrical filter to make the woofer roll off acoustically with third order slope.
Important point is: you can do almost 1001 ways to achieve near flat frequency response. You can throw as many components as you want, you can connect the components in any imaginative way (as long as you know what you're doing). Most of the things have been taken care of the speaker design software (once you have created the mathematical "model" for your drivers)
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I reckon you would be best to Google a general article or two on "Speaker Crossover networks" . I think you will ask more accurate questions if you know some of the basics before you start.
One of the problems with a general question on a forum like this is that it will bring out the ZEALOTs. And there are few areas where there is more disagreement than this one. There are people here with decades of experience who will give you VERY good reasons to go 1st order. The 4th order lobby makes its case brilliantly. For beginners I think a series connected 2nd order has a lot to recommend it and if you are a fan of the classic low colouration units from the UK in the 1970's you would think that 3rd order Butterworth was the only serious options........!
Just when you are on top of all that the Full Range crew will have you with NO Crossover at all..............and they have a good case too!
Good luck,
Jonathan
One of the problems with a general question on a forum like this is that it will bring out the ZEALOTs. And there are few areas where there is more disagreement than this one. There are people here with decades of experience who will give you VERY good reasons to go 1st order. The 4th order lobby makes its case brilliantly. For beginners I think a series connected 2nd order has a lot to recommend it and if you are a fan of the classic low colouration units from the UK in the 1970's you would think that 3rd order Butterworth was the only serious options........!
Just when you are on top of all that the Full Range crew will have you with NO Crossover at all..............and they have a good case too!
Good luck,
Jonathan
I am not really interested in 1st order because it has too many problems and I dont see any advantages in it actually. What are the very good reasons?
But that still leaves a choice between 2nd,3rd and 4th. I dont see many 3rd order speakers why is that?
and if you are going to go for a 2nd, why not go all the way up to the fourth?
lilun, do not forget about phase...lower order crossovers have better phase coherency
you should use lowest order allowed by the inherent fr response of the driver
if you unnecessarily use higher order (thinking that you have done better), you may have just messed up phase coherency
lower order sounds better
I have heard many good sounding 2-way vintage speakers with just one capacitor as crossover
you should use lowest order allowed by the inherent fr response of the driver
if you unnecessarily use higher order (thinking that you have done better), you may have just messed up phase coherency
lower order sounds better
I have heard many good sounding 2-way vintage speakers with just one capacitor as crossover
He's trying to tell you that the electrical order means nothing. A 1st order electrical crossover could give you a 4th order acoustic slope.
yes I see that but a 1st order electrical doesnt give you the protection of a 4th order. Theres no dispute there. And that is important point because no tweeter is designed to go very low and most woofer shouldnt go very high. So I dont agree that its only the acoustical order that matters.
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