Hello
I recently bought some big 3 way speakers from gumtree, like a Craigs list for Australia. there were in good condition and cheap, $50 for both. I guess the guy just wanted them gone cause they were big and was in-between moving houses.
They are "Digital reference" brand and are DR 2403 model. They are a 3 way with 2 x 12" bass drivers, 4" mid and a 1" tweeter, Sealed box, and sealed back mid and tweeters, so the woofers get all the box, they currently weigh 20kgs each.
They sound ok as is but I like the boxes and look of them and will replace all drivers with higher power new modern drivers and change them into vented speakers.
I have opened them up and they are so small, the woofers. there 12" on the outside and scale down to a 3" diameter magnet, 4"s from the front of the woofer. very cheap and poor looking. Made my friends and I laugh lol. Also the crossover system is a 1st order for everything just single components glued to the walls lol.
I have already installed the vents on the back of the speakers. I just have to buy and replace new woofer and make a crossover.
The speakers are 98cm high x 38cm deep and 36cm wide
Ive posted some pics which i will refer too in my questions and ive posted pics of the speakers for a look at as is now.
The woofers i will replace with are coming from jaycar because A) they fit in the holes already in the box and B) i can afford them right now.
My questions:
1) In the wiring diagram will it work as i have suggested?
2) if it does work will all crossover work as suggested, cause im thinking the way its connected in series will cut off all highs and pass on nothing to the other mids and tweeter
3) are crossover and all loudspeakers wired like sub woofers as in does the parallel and series wiring still double and half the nominal impedance at the terminals like i have suggest because i remember reading that the woofers nearly always decide the final nominal impedance, i hope thats not true so my diagram will work.
Thanks 🙂
I recently bought some big 3 way speakers from gumtree, like a Craigs list for Australia. there were in good condition and cheap, $50 for both. I guess the guy just wanted them gone cause they were big and was in-between moving houses.
They are "Digital reference" brand and are DR 2403 model. They are a 3 way with 2 x 12" bass drivers, 4" mid and a 1" tweeter, Sealed box, and sealed back mid and tweeters, so the woofers get all the box, they currently weigh 20kgs each.
They sound ok as is but I like the boxes and look of them and will replace all drivers with higher power new modern drivers and change them into vented speakers.
I have opened them up and they are so small, the woofers. there 12" on the outside and scale down to a 3" diameter magnet, 4"s from the front of the woofer. very cheap and poor looking. Made my friends and I laugh lol. Also the crossover system is a 1st order for everything just single components glued to the walls lol.
I have already installed the vents on the back of the speakers. I just have to buy and replace new woofer and make a crossover.
The speakers are 98cm high x 38cm deep and 36cm wide
Ive posted some pics which i will refer too in my questions and ive posted pics of the speakers for a look at as is now.
The woofers i will replace with are coming from jaycar because A) they fit in the holes already in the box and B) i can afford them right now.
My questions:
1) In the wiring diagram will it work as i have suggested?
2) if it does work will all crossover work as suggested, cause im thinking the way its connected in series will cut off all highs and pass on nothing to the other mids and tweeter
3) are crossover and all loudspeakers wired like sub woofers as in does the parallel and series wiring still double and half the nominal impedance at the terminals like i have suggest because i remember reading that the woofers nearly always decide the final nominal impedance, i hope thats not true so my diagram will work.
Thanks 🙂
Hi, the last sentence is the only true one -are crossover and all loudspeakers wired like sub woofers as in does the parallel and series wiring still double and half the nominal impedance at the terminals
But it is somehow 'flawed' by the fact that everything originates from examining those speakers, which are not truly hifi but the so called 'reinforcement sound'.
Also the brand sounds like ' Digital Ready' and all those definitions from the '80s😱😛🙄
See the sensitivity ? It's 95 dB
But it is somehow 'flawed' by the fact that everything originates from examining those speakers, which are not truly hifi but the so called 'reinforcement sound'.
Also the brand sounds like ' Digital Ready' and all those definitions from the '80s😱😛🙄
See the sensitivity ? It's 95 dB
HI Toast Master
Not sure what experience you have so please ignore the following if already known.
I finished a similar renovation project only this weekend - see WIN ISD posts in this forum. My old speakers had sealed back mids and very similar wiring/ componentry to what you describe.
As I have been told, old speaker designs like this had very high crossover frequencies so may not match new proposed drivers.
You cannot just put in new drivers just because they match the cut out size - well you could, but performance is not optimal.
Each driver has a different frequency and impedance response so you need to design the cross-overs to get a straight line response across the range of frequencies of your proposed driver combination (plus straight line total impedance as far as possible). I used J.Bagby's passive Cross-over Design tool.
Also vent diameter and length needs to be designed according to cabinet dimensions and proposed drivers' properties. See WIN ISD for example.
Speaker powers need to be aligned with your amplifier, if you amp is putting out 200 watts then 50 wattt speakers will not last long if you turn up the volume.
Have a look on this forum and do a Google search for speaker design. There is a lot of help available on internet and here.
Good luck
Not sure what experience you have so please ignore the following if already known.
I finished a similar renovation project only this weekend - see WIN ISD posts in this forum. My old speakers had sealed back mids and very similar wiring/ componentry to what you describe.
As I have been told, old speaker designs like this had very high crossover frequencies so may not match new proposed drivers.
You cannot just put in new drivers just because they match the cut out size - well you could, but performance is not optimal.
Each driver has a different frequency and impedance response so you need to design the cross-overs to get a straight line response across the range of frequencies of your proposed driver combination (plus straight line total impedance as far as possible). I used J.Bagby's passive Cross-over Design tool.
Also vent diameter and length needs to be designed according to cabinet dimensions and proposed drivers' properties. See WIN ISD for example.
Speaker powers need to be aligned with your amplifier, if you amp is putting out 200 watts then 50 wattt speakers will not last long if you turn up the volume.
Have a look on this forum and do a Google search for speaker design. There is a lot of help available on internet and here.
Good luck
They rely also on 'mechanical' crossover of the single driver ( efficiency in working band )
ah some replies 🙂
Oh i am making the crossovers, in the pic there just shown as boxes for the pic, Im not just swapping drivers and keeping old crossovers lol. I just need to know how to wire it and im going forward with it.
Ive made a couple of subs years ago using winisd and know what length and thickness i need. I didn't just plop any old size and length in like a lot of boags would lol. the ports i put in are 11cm in diameter and they adjust from 14 to 30cm so i can adjust it from 36hz to 28hz with low winspeeds depending on what the new woofers can do.
The amp i will be using is a Onkyo TX-sr601 whick will put out a clean 110 watts per channel x 6. which i also picked up for $40 from mission, really good find, love finding treasure at those stores.
your right there is a lot of articles around the net and i have been reading all of them late into the morning 😉 but the situation i have described isnt in any of them, they dont go into specific wiring diagrams like i have with 2 bass woofers and 1 tweeter and mid all at 8 ohms.
if i wire up the way i have shown, what will happen?
will each speaker get what i want it to by my pic.
Oh i am making the crossovers, in the pic there just shown as boxes for the pic, Im not just swapping drivers and keeping old crossovers lol. I just need to know how to wire it and im going forward with it.
Ive made a couple of subs years ago using winisd and know what length and thickness i need. I didn't just plop any old size and length in like a lot of boags would lol. the ports i put in are 11cm in diameter and they adjust from 14 to 30cm so i can adjust it from 36hz to 28hz with low winspeeds depending on what the new woofers can do.
The amp i will be using is a Onkyo TX-sr601 whick will put out a clean 110 watts per channel x 6. which i also picked up for $40 from mission, really good find, love finding treasure at those stores.
your right there is a lot of articles around the net and i have been reading all of them late into the morning 😉 but the situation i have described isnt in any of them, they dont go into specific wiring diagrams like i have with 2 bass woofers and 1 tweeter and mid all at 8 ohms.
if i wire up the way i have shown, what will happen?
will each speaker get what i want it to by my pic.
well that seems true cause they are 1st order and seem to be cut real steep still under 50hz like when i play "bass i love you" nothing happens or very little to none comes through
I've never seen anything like that 😕
and you should specify what's in the square, because there's no generic
symbol such hi-pass ( it can be right, but working at line level, not power )
as there's no generic driver associated with it- they work together and the amplifier works together, too.
BTW. If you have 6 channels, you can use the 4 woofers each for each channel ( two ch. spares ! ) if they're a little bit decent... performers .
and you should specify what's in the square, because there's no generic
symbol such hi-pass ( it can be right, but working at line level, not power )
as there's no generic driver associated with it- they work together and the amplifier works together, too.
BTW. If you have 6 channels, you can use the 4 woofers each for each channel ( two ch. spares ! ) if they're a little bit decent... performers .
Oh no ! That's a completely different argument...indeed I was to say such
thing, talking about efficiency and mechanical crossover: the low cut is
dependant on the driver+box which is an high-pass....The total Q or Q in box
If the driver has no motor, excursion or simply cone area for pushing the desired amount of air, the particular note won't be played .
That happens with the very low notes when played thru the 1" single speaker
that's inside the Minimac.
For house... I see that a modern 3" from Aurasound or Dayton can perform
very well.
I was just looking at the thread Systems...http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/23208-system-pictures-description-236.html#post3576719
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I haven't designed the exact crossovers yet, but in the squares go the caps and coils needed to get the desired crossover points.
The current wiring of the system is, all drivers 8 ohms, 1 tweeter, 1 mid and 2 woofers and the speaker as a whole is 8 ohms at terminals so i should be able to do it as well just need to know if what i have proposed will do the job im asking
I dont want crossover designs, I have online calculators for that for that, Im just asking for wiring help and where to place the crossovers to get a nominal 8 ohm load.
Start from the basics ...load- generator --wire ( resistance ) !!!
Even if we are talking about sounds&music which is a little different from general electricity applications .
So the resistance of two 8Ω speakers equals 4Ω; an amplifier is asked to
double output current ( ideally) when load halves.
It's better to base a project for a standard 8 Ω impedance.
The value of the inductance associated with the low pass filter will rise, as also it's resistance -for a given Fcut. So paralleled woofers often means a lower cost for the crossover part (inductor ) and a higher output due to the increased efficiency ...
Even if we are talking about sounds&music which is a little different from general electricity applications .
So the resistance of two 8Ω speakers equals 4Ω; an amplifier is asked to
double output current ( ideally) when load halves.
It's better to base a project for a standard 8 Ω impedance.
The value of the inductance associated with the low pass filter will rise, as also it's resistance -for a given Fcut. So paralleled woofers often means a lower cost for the crossover part (inductor ) and a higher output due to the increased efficiency ...
Do check out Steve's thread toast_master 🙂 He has been on quite a journey! As soon as I started to read your first post I thought hmmm this sounds familiar, I should point him to Steve's thread 😉 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/229040-win-isd-pro-multiway-design.html
If you are feeling a bit impatient skip through to here --> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/229040-win-isd-pro-multiway-design-3.html#post3358821
I'm guessing (and only guessing) that at this point you are contemplating text book 2nd order filters 😉
Tony.
If you are feeling a bit impatient skip through to here --> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/229040-win-isd-pro-multiway-design-3.html#post3358821
I'm guessing (and only guessing) that at this point you are contemplating text book 2nd order filters 😉
Tony.
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