I remember building loudspeakers in the 1980's and Morel was a popular driver. Recently I spoke to a distributor about a recommendation for a soft dome tweeter for a 3 way system I am building and they recommended the MDT30!
It's 30 years old!! Is it still that highly recommended? I was thinking in it's price range there would be strong contenders if not better drivers? I was thinking Seas? What are your thoughts on this as I have been absent the DIY scene for 20 years. Thanks!!
It's 30 years old!! Is it still that highly recommended? I was thinking in it's price range there would be strong contenders if not better drivers? I was thinking Seas? What are your thoughts on this as I have been absent the DIY scene for 20 years. Thanks!!
I believe Morel have quietly updated their range to the ferrofluid Morel 308 these days. Soft domes are one of those designs that like the bumble bee, really ought not to fly. 
They don't behave like domes at all, the soft centre tends to stay stationary. More like ring radiators in fact. But for all that, they are quite unfatiguing. Cheap replaceable Morel voicecoils are a plus too.
Metal domes combine true dome like performance with some, IMO, unpleasant ringing effects that make my ears bleed. Maybe it's just me.
You choose your poison. But many people also really like the newer Vifa XT19 and XT25 waveguide soft tweeters. The centre is pinned stationary, there is no ferrofluid, so it has some particular elegance and evidently pleases:
Vifa XT25TG-30-04
They don't behave like domes at all, the soft centre tends to stay stationary. More like ring radiators in fact. But for all that, they are quite unfatiguing. Cheap replaceable Morel voicecoils are a plus too.
Metal domes combine true dome like performance with some, IMO, unpleasant ringing effects that make my ears bleed. Maybe it's just me.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You choose your poison. But many people also really like the newer Vifa XT19 and XT25 waveguide soft tweeters. The centre is pinned stationary, there is no ferrofluid, so it has some particular elegance and evidently pleases:
Vifa XT25TG-30-04
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Hi,
You can get near the same performance cheaper, or better for the same cost.
I can't be bothered to correct the misinformation posted regarding
domes. Its too long winded and nobody would really care anyway.
Tweeter choice for a 3 way very much depends on the rest of the design.
e.g. in this design : Parts Express DIY Project
Its actually very difficult to find a better tweeter at any price.
e.g. in this very different design :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
The tweeter choice is cost effective, but with tweaks others could be used.
Zaph|Audio is a place to start.
rgds, sreten.
You can get near the same performance cheaper, or better for the same cost.
I can't be bothered to correct the misinformation posted regarding
domes. Its too long winded and nobody would really care anyway.
Tweeter choice for a 3 way very much depends on the rest of the design.
e.g. in this design : Parts Express DIY Project
Its actually very difficult to find a better tweeter at any price.
e.g. in this very different design :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
The tweeter choice is cost effective, but with tweaks others could be used.
Zaph|Audio is a place to start.
rgds, sreten.
There are better modern drivers without a doubt - technology, and also understanding of acoustics, have both advanced. A CSS LD25X, Dayton RS28, an SB Acoustics SB29, an Usher 9950, Hiquphon OW2, Scanspeak 6640, and Seas Excel Millenium would be my list, at least as far as domes/RR go.
The LD25X in particular looks devastating.
More important than the driver itself though, is the polar response of the speaker as a whole. And your tweeter selection and crossover affect that greatly.
The peak in the hard dome is scaring me away
Yeah, 27khz.... frightening.... With a huge peak like that you might almost be able to.... have your pet possibly hear it....
While there are some poor sounding metal domes, there are also many that sound every bit as good - or better - than a soft dome. Don't let bias be your guide in the quest for the best sound. The hard domes by commercial speakers companies like KEF, German Maestro, PSB(i think they use off the shelf stuff actually), and Revel are very smooth and far from fatiguing, as is the scanspeak unit I listed above. I've never messed with the Dayton RS28A but I wouldn't discount it either (the RS28F is the fabric dome version). Seas also has a rather smooth metal dome tweeter in their prestige line, I forget the name 27... and then four letters ;P ).
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There are better modern drivers without a doubt - technology, and also understanding of acoustics, have both advanced. A CSS LD25X, Dayton RS28, an SB Acoustics SB29, an Usher 9950, Hiquphon OW2, Scanspeak 6640, and Seas Excel Millenium would be my list, at least as far as domes/RR go.
The LD25X in particular looks devastating.
More important than the driver itself though, is the polar response of the speaker as a whole. And your tweeter selection and crossover affect that greatly.
Yeah, 27khz.... frightening.... With a huge peak like that you might almost be able to.... have your pet possibly hear it....
While there are some poor sounding metal domes, there are also many that sound every bit as good - or better - than a soft dome. Don't let bias be your guide in the quest for the best sound. The hard domes by commercial speakers companies like KEF, German Maestro, PSB(i think they use off the shelf stuff actually), and Revel are very smooth and far from fatiguing, as is the scanspeak unit I listed above. I've never messed with the Dayton RS28A but I wouldn't discount it either (the RS28F is the fabric dome version). Seas also has a rather smooth metal dome tweeter in their prestige line, I forget the name 27... and then four letters ;P ).
HAHA! My bad, you're right I didn't even look at the freq! I just saw the peak! I'm lucky if I can hear to 14k!! My cat might have a problem with it though
A true dome would expand and contract with the audio. The only tweeter I knew that did this was the strange gas-pressurised piezo-foil Audax tweeter (that deflated after a year or two, really annoying those who spent lots of money on a pair!).
Normal dome tweeters still move in a pistonic manner, so in many ways don't have all that many advantages over a good cone radiator.
Normal dome tweeters still move in a pistonic manner, so in many ways don't have all that many advantages over a good cone radiator.
i agree with the moderate opinions, i agree SOME hard domes sound horrific, very sharp. I havent heard those ceramic accutons but id imagine they COULD sound very hard indeed. Even some mylar, melinex, or hard polymer domes are hard sounding, i find the soft dome to be either very dead sounding or just right. The thing about domes is they are better in regard radiation resistance, exactly HOW much i couldnt say. To those that like a wide pattern over 90deg then this is a good thing
as for system7 ring radiator thing, sure a dome breaks up, and the mid part will be in antiphase with the edge, at certain frequencies. Doesnt make a ring radiator tho, and hardER domes do it too, to a lesser degree sure.
as for system7 ring radiator thing, sure a dome breaks up, and the mid part will be in antiphase with the edge, at certain frequencies. Doesnt make a ring radiator tho, and hardER domes do it too, to a lesser degree sure.
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dunno about the Accuton ceramics, but Jeff bagby measured the transducer labs N26C and the impulse response appears like it will be very clean:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/jeffbagby/New Drivers/TransLabN26Distortion1M100dB-Bjpg.jpg
Jeff Bagby said:
forgive my scepticism, but if those 'blips' at 3ish khz and 5k are measurement artifacts, then the waterfall is unreliable. Thats in my limited experience of course, but if i produced a test record as part of my job, which i do, with an artifact that significant, then it would be invalidated, and i would have to re-test. Since the blips do seem to blend into the lower level stuff, then i would be inclined to think they are real, perhaps greatly exaggerated by a flaw or quirk in testing. In other words, it could be concealing breakup of very high Q, and the delay could be anywhere from 0 to full scale. Or it could just be that the peak is over scale already. If so 5ms is bad. Either way, i dont wish to talk down these drivers, but i dont trust THAT graph. My greater point being that the majority of domes ive liked the sound of were of the silk dome type, and some poly fabric domes. The only mylar domes i like are T27s, others just sound tizzy. I really like inverted domes like the oldish Focal ones, conventional ally domes im just to picky about.i havent HEARD the OPs morels, but in general, their drivers, mainly midbass, dont appeal. Like Eton stuff, plot etc arent exceptional, the only way id buy any is if i heard them, and loved them. So id say if0he OP is happy with their sound, then stick with them. Ive still got my Audax TM25F1 soft domes, they still inspire. They get pretty ragged, but there is something in their presentation of music that beats my 'much better' other tweeters.
Probably one of the most important things i've learnt in the crazy world of audiofoolery is that things that measure better don't always sound better - and sometimes they sound a lot worse...
The original poster has long departed. So we are just entertaining ourselves here.
What I can tell you is that Morel are one VERY competent and high end company. The tweeter in question is probably replaced by the CAT308 these days. A very nice soft dome unit with all the modern goodies, but actually not the best/most expensive they do by a long shot.
ELTIM CA 621
The Morel woofers tend to be low inductance vented polycones. Whether that's your cup of tea exactly, I couldn't say. But I could build a very uncoloured speaker with those sort of components. Sort of thing pianist Vladimir Ashkenazy would like for his classical records. He'd possibly play his collection of ZZ Top discs on something else though.
What I can tell you is that Morel are one VERY competent and high end company. The tweeter in question is probably replaced by the CAT308 these days. A very nice soft dome unit with all the modern goodies, but actually not the best/most expensive they do by a long shot.
ELTIM CA 621
The Morel woofers tend to be low inductance vented polycones. Whether that's your cup of tea exactly, I couldn't say. But I could build a very uncoloured speaker with those sort of components. Sort of thing pianist Vladimir Ashkenazy would like for his classical records. He'd possibly play his collection of ZZ Top discs on something else though.
The original poster has long departed. So we are just entertaining ourselves here.
What I can tell you is that Morel are one VERY competent and high end company. The tweeter in question is probably replaced by the CAT308 these days. A very nice soft dome unit with all the modern goodies, but actually not the best/most expensive they do by a long shot.
ELTIM CA 621
The Morel woofers tend to be low inductance vented polycones. Whether that's your cup of tea exactly, I couldn't say. But I could build a very uncoloured speaker with those sort of components. Sort of thing pianist Vladimir Ashkenazy would like for his classical records. He'd possibly play his collection of ZZ Top discs on something else though.
My apologies everyone. I was in the hospital getting hip resurfacing then into sub acute rehab for 2 weeks so I do apologize for abandoning the thread but I didn't forget and appreciate all the help and advice.
The SB dome and Seas T29 and Hyq tweeter interest me. Is there any performance advantage of a ring radiator or a particular situation where I would want to use one.?
Thanks again
Just in case anyone is interested.
Distortion measurements of an older MDT30 made at what I think was 2.83Vrms.
The frequency response was taken with the tweeter in a cabinet, a gated measurement with minimal smoothing applied.
Not really a bad tweeter, but as sreten says you can better today for less.
Distortion measurements of an older MDT30 made at what I think was 2.83Vrms.
The frequency response was taken with the tweeter in a cabinet, a gated measurement with minimal smoothing applied.
Not really a bad tweeter, but as sreten says you can better today for less.
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