How do you quantify the audible difference of the Mills? Will be employed as tweeter pad, midbass impedance EQ & overall system impedance EQ. Very high quality, high resolution system. Tweeters $90, midbass 2.5 x that. High quality caps, high attention paid to enclosure & driver fasteners. Guess I just answered my own post.
Hey, chime in anyway!
I only hesitate because there are 4 (resistors per XO) x 6 XO = 24 resistors total = Ceramic $30, Mills $90. Any lower cost source than Parts Express?
I became more interested in upgrading the resistors after hearing the differences of capacitor direction & capacitor upgrades in parallel circuits.
TIA!
Hey, chime in anyway!
I only hesitate because there are 4 (resistors per XO) x 6 XO = 24 resistors total = Ceramic $30, Mills $90. Any lower cost source than Parts Express?
I became more interested in upgrading the resistors after hearing the differences of capacitor direction & capacitor upgrades in parallel circuits.
TIA!
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Handmade has much better prices than Parts Express on the Mill resistors.
I have all Mills output resistors in my Leach amp and am very satisfied with the sound. A lot of the Pass amps use the Panasonic 3 watt metal film types at 0.51 each at Digikey. You will be hard pressed to find many who will discredit that amp line.
Tad
I have all Mills output resistors in my Leach amp and am very satisfied with the sound. A lot of the Pass amps use the Panasonic 3 watt metal film types at 0.51 each at Digikey. You will be hard pressed to find many who will discredit that amp line.
Tad
I did not try the Mills but i also like wirewounds best in speakers.
For best results i use Mundorf Supreem. They are non inductive non magnetic and low inductance.
having measured and listened to a lot of resistors i found that inductance is not an issue at audio frequencies even when the resitor has no Aerton-Perry winding.
Other favourits of mine are Vishay-Sfernice RWM. They are awaillable in 7, 8 and 11W at Farnell and cost around 1€. The sound has a bit more sparkle in the treble and is ideal for a softdome tweeter. You can fake a non inductive by mounting two resistors of double value close together, inverting the leads of one and then paralleling them for half value. Welwyn-TT electronics makes the somewhat similar W22, W23 and W24 series giving an even brighter sound with a very "high" soundstage. I do not know where that effect comes from but it is very obvious on listening.
For ribbon tweeters i like to use Vishay RCH, TT-BCP or BRP, Tyco MPC thick film resistors. They sound neutral as if they whould not be there but the Mundorf has a liquidity that is hard to explain but easy to like.
For best results i use Mundorf Supreem. They are non inductive non magnetic and low inductance.
having measured and listened to a lot of resistors i found that inductance is not an issue at audio frequencies even when the resitor has no Aerton-Perry winding.
Other favourits of mine are Vishay-Sfernice RWM. They are awaillable in 7, 8 and 11W at Farnell and cost around 1€. The sound has a bit more sparkle in the treble and is ideal for a softdome tweeter. You can fake a non inductive by mounting two resistors of double value close together, inverting the leads of one and then paralleling them for half value. Welwyn-TT electronics makes the somewhat similar W22, W23 and W24 series giving an even brighter sound with a very "high" soundstage. I do not know where that effect comes from but it is very obvious on listening.
For ribbon tweeters i like to use Vishay RCH, TT-BCP or BRP, Tyco MPC thick film resistors. They sound neutral as if they whould not be there but the Mundorf has a liquidity that is hard to explain but easy to like.
(Donning flameproof underwear) I don't believe that the relatively low value resistors used in crossovers affect the sound one iota. There isn't that much wire in them and the inductance is negligible with low Q even if they're inductively wound. All the manufacturers use wire from a limited number of commonly available alloys. Heck, you can wind 'em yourself if you get a spool of Rediohm 800 or one of the other super low TC wires and want to rig up a spot welder- these alloys can't be soldered with the exception of Manganin and Constantan. Manganin, BTW, would be my choice if I were going all-out on a high end resistor. In non-wirewound resistors the electrical properties might be a bit different (better HF), but not in any way that will affect a crossover. Putting these in a feedback loop or someplace where the measured differences matter might reveal sonic differences or circuit instabilities, but not in a low impedance high level passive crossover. Bottom line is that the most expensive resistor you can buy has nothing over a piece of wire hacked out of an old toaster oven for this use.
Bless your hearts! Great advice, thanks!
For loudspeakers, what is an accepted range of ratios for computing resistor wattage vs. maximum amplifier power?
Joachim
Your little standmount was among the best performing displays heard at all of CES '09. Contratulations on superb performance at such a reasonable price! (about $2500/pr USD) Obviously Allan Perkins' front end & the electronics helped.
For loudspeakers, what is an accepted range of ratios for computing resistor wattage vs. maximum amplifier power?
Joachim
Your little standmount was among the best performing displays heard at all of CES '09. Contratulations on superb performance at such a reasonable price! (about $2500/pr USD) Obviously Allan Perkins' front end & the electronics helped.
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Thank you for the kind words.
I agree with conrad that inductance of resistors is a non issue in loudspeakers.
i made some measurements that i will publish on the soon to be released Quantum Music website. i was quite surprised that even the cheepest zement resistor had no measurable inductance up to 200kHz with a 2.5 Ohm dummy load.
of cause i can measure inductance with a squarewave but in the audio range there is nothing to worry about. i disagree that they sound all the same. please visit me and i can show you. by the way Isabellenhütte that makes resistive wire for a lot of companies is only 60km from my place. the are experts in metalurgy and it forrunners must go back to the midleages being swordmakers. they make Manganin Resistors called Isaplan.
Concerning wattage i whould not go under 5W. Resistors with higher wattage also distort a little less (but only under -140dB) and temperature coefficient it not such an issue. i learde that resistors in impedance compesation circuits can get quite hot so go for 10 to 20W there.
"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein
I agree with conrad that inductance of resistors is a non issue in loudspeakers.
i made some measurements that i will publish on the soon to be released Quantum Music website. i was quite surprised that even the cheepest zement resistor had no measurable inductance up to 200kHz with a 2.5 Ohm dummy load.
of cause i can measure inductance with a squarewave but in the audio range there is nothing to worry about. i disagree that they sound all the same. please visit me and i can show you. by the way Isabellenhütte that makes resistive wire for a lot of companies is only 60km from my place. the are experts in metalurgy and it forrunners must go back to the midleages being swordmakers. they make Manganin Resistors called Isaplan.
Concerning wattage i whould not go under 5W. Resistors with higher wattage also distort a little less (but only under -140dB) and temperature coefficient it not such an issue. i learde that resistors in impedance compesation circuits can get quite hot so go for 10 to 20W there.
"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein
I have, in fact, some Isabellenhütte Isaplan resistors! They are indeed about the best resistors I've ever seen. I suspect not widely available here in the USA, though I haven't searched. I get my resistance wire from Kanthal, formerly H.P. Reid, of Palm Coast Fl. They're also big in hex shaped wire for voice coils.
Best,
Conrad
Best,
Conrad
Let`s do a DIY resistor !
I have an idea for a chaos resistor that is just a bundle of resistive, insulated wire caotically pushed together and then somehow laquered, sealed or potted.
There is one guy in Switzerland that winds resistors like coils in old radios. Very pretty.
Isabellenhütte also makes one variaty that is antimagnetic. I think it has exactly 1 Ohm per meter and could be usefull.
I have an idea for a chaos resistor that is just a bundle of resistive, insulated wire caotically pushed together and then somehow laquered, sealed or potted.
There is one guy in Switzerland that winds resistors like coils in old radios. Very pretty.
Isabellenhütte also makes one variaty that is antimagnetic. I think it has exactly 1 Ohm per meter and could be usefull.
On the midbass i whould go for a litzwire aircoil.
I think Solen was the first that made them. I use Mundorf or Intertechnik. They can also bake them in an oven to melt the laquer and make the coils very resistant to mechanical vibration because that can be an issue when you put the crossovr into the speakerbox.
A more expensive option is a coil from foil like Görz make them. the have excellent mechanical damping and low skinneffect. Sonically i find them rather dark (or is that simply less distortion ?) in series with a mid or woofer but i use them parallel to the tweeter where they work for me pretty well.
I think Solen was the first that made them. I use Mundorf or Intertechnik. They can also bake them in an oven to melt the laquer and make the coils very resistant to mechanical vibration because that can be an issue when you put the crossovr into the speakerbox.
A more expensive option is a coil from foil like Görz make them. the have excellent mechanical damping and low skinneffect. Sonically i find them rather dark (or is that simply less distortion ?) in series with a mid or woofer but i use them parallel to the tweeter where they work for me pretty well.
Is the following correct? For resistor value X: sum total two parallel resistors, each value 2X, one resistor inverted direction relative to other.
Re. bypassing: Has anyone heard of bypassing a capacitor bank in a speaker XO w/ 1k Ohm resistor (low wattage). A friend recommended bypassing an L-pad w/ 1k resistor; IIRC it worked well. He might have recommended same for capacitor bank of XO but unsure; he since passed away.
yes, when you do the fake low inductane resistor you need two with double the value you want and reverse one in direction ceveat: in only works with wirewounds.
I never heard about bypassing capacitors with resistors so i never tried it. what i sometimes do is bypass the capacitor AND resistor before the treble unit in one go with a small value (say 0.01 - 0.22uF) MKP. i also have seen bateries in speakers that bias the elcaps.
Since Allen builds my speakers in the states he implemented some expensive improvements in the form of Eichmann jacks and very good internal cabling. The quality of the crossover is very good but not exceptional. A crossover for one single piece of the Spirit (an export model to the far east) cost us nearly 1300,-$ when we go for the all out Mundorf version so this is out of reach for the Anima. There exist an Anima Limited Edition with a top quality Mundorf crossover. Allen, Stig Björge of Lyra and David Saltz of Wire World use them as their referenc.
I never heard about bypassing capacitors with resistors so i never tried it. what i sometimes do is bypass the capacitor AND resistor before the treble unit in one go with a small value (say 0.01 - 0.22uF) MKP. i also have seen bateries in speakers that bias the elcaps.
Since Allen builds my speakers in the states he implemented some expensive improvements in the form of Eichmann jacks and very good internal cabling. The quality of the crossover is very good but not exceptional. A crossover for one single piece of the Spirit (an export model to the far east) cost us nearly 1300,-$ when we go for the all out Mundorf version so this is out of reach for the Anima. There exist an Anima Limited Edition with a top quality Mundorf crossover. Allen, Stig Björge of Lyra and David Saltz of Wire World use them as their referenc.
Are they really that good Face? I was curious about them, but their cost has stopped me from thinking about using them in my next speaker project Ekta GrandeScanSpeak 18W/. I hope to start building the cabinets very shortly.
Ekta GrandeScanSpeak 18W/
Curly I would sure love to see, hear & touch the above project when completed! It's a jewel. Finish?
Ditto your question to Face about the Dueland vs. Mills...Recommended source for the Dueland resistors delivered to Utah? I'd consider them for the tweeter pads.
Again, thanks one & all for thoughful & considerate contributions.
Curly I would sure love to see, hear & touch the above project when completed! It's a jewel. Finish?
Ditto your question to Face about the Dueland vs. Mills...Recommended source for the Dueland resistors delivered to Utah? I'd consider them for the tweeter pads.
Again, thanks one & all for thoughful & considerate contributions.
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Not sure yet if I will veneer or simply spray them as was done in the examples. I do have some incredible Bocote or Macassar Ebony veneer that I might use for these. I used to have a figured hardwood lumber business (hence my handle Curly Woods) so I have a lot of great stuff that I have rat-holed over the years. Need to finish my amplifier project first though before starting on these cabinets. I am torn as to whether have the internal bracing CNC'd or deal with all of the MDF dust. I have a good friend that has a CNC machine and the cost maybe worth the hassles of dealing with the damn dust. I hate MDF! I was thinking of also making the front baffle as a mixture of bamboo laminate lumber (better known as "LBL" and MDF as semi-constraint mode baffle. Troel's design does not make the front baffle as thick as I want to do it, so I need to account for this. I was thinking about a 3 3/4" thick front baffle to dampen the drivers using 3/4" panels. MDF/LBL/MDF/LBL/MDF arrangement. Jon Marsh over on the HTGuide web site recently used a similar arrangement for the front baffle of his "Ardent" build. I was torn on building it or this design. I may still build his also, but he is working on an even better design that looks like the cat's meow, but it will not happen for a little while yet. Jon seems to be one of the best speaker builders in the DIY forums that I have read about. His xover theory is really good. He had some association with Avalon once upon a time and his designs model many of the Avalon style cabinets too.
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