Hey guys
I am a big fan of these speakers and have been using them for about a year. I really want to make better use of my DEQX and actively triamp the Unitys. I've tried to get more info from the folks at Yorkville but to no avail. The published specs on the Yorkville webpage list a 1250hz crossover for the tweeter (BMS 4550) to the three midrange drivers (Celestion 5"ers) and 300hz to the woofer.
Any ideas on what I should try? I was thinking of first using the crossover figures with steeper slopes. The BMS is a good driver, but I wonder if an upgrade to the Celestions might help. I'm not sure what the woofer is.
I pulled the horn section off last night and, wow, talk about a complicated crossover network!
Thanks guys for any ideas.
-Jim
I am a big fan of these speakers and have been using them for about a year. I really want to make better use of my DEQX and actively triamp the Unitys. I've tried to get more info from the folks at Yorkville but to no avail. The published specs on the Yorkville webpage list a 1250hz crossover for the tweeter (BMS 4550) to the three midrange drivers (Celestion 5"ers) and 300hz to the woofer.
Any ideas on what I should try? I was thinking of first using the crossover figures with steeper slopes. The BMS is a good driver, but I wonder if an upgrade to the Celestions might help. I'm not sure what the woofer is.
I pulled the horn section off last night and, wow, talk about a complicated crossover network!
Thanks guys for any ideas.
-Jim
Oh sh t, Danley is using Celestion for the midranges?
I had no idea what driver that was. I wound up buying a case of woofers based on the comments he made here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1670643
If you want my .02 on how to improve a Unity horn, check out some of the posts I've made over the past few years. I've built three clones now, and I'm running them in my daily driver as we speak.
Well just thinking out loud... you could perhaps use Soundeasy to measure/calculate the crossover's transfer function and then digitally emulate these slopes by using Soundeasy to program a Behringer DCX2496. That off course requires that you have fairly good knowledge of the use of the software which by most accounts has a steep learning curve.
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I put 4 of these into a Big House in Alert Bay. http://www.yorkville.com/default.asp?p_id=127
The designer was very open to the idea of helping to convert to active (both Jesse & i put a set of these on a long queue for hifi possibilities). I'd contact him.
dave
The designer was very open to the idea of helping to convert to active (both Jesse & i put a set of these on a long queue for hifi possibilities). I'd contact him.
dave
Are the mid and treble crossovers, parrallel crossovers? If so I'd think you'd be able to measure the response of each network/driver combo individually and that would give the resulting target functions.
If I can help in anyway, Jim, let me know.
Josh
Patrick,
I've done a lot of poking around and had many doors slammed in my face. However, I believe I know the exact drivers that Danley is now using. Download the below Celestion catalog and go to page 68 and 69.
http://professional.celestion.com/pro/media/PRORANGECATALOGUE.pdf
The 5" that is being used is the Celestion TF0510MR. The 4" that is being used is the Celestion TF0410MR. I tried to get more detailed T/S parameters, but Celestion refused. Let me tell you, the people at Celestion were real sweethearts, NOT!.
The Misco 5" is just fine. No worries. Any high eff sealed midrange works just fine for Unity clones. You just end up with a slightly different crossover to get everything correct.
Rgs, JLH
That's about the last thing you would want to do to a Unity horn. First, the Unity uses a 1" compression driver so a TD-4001 will not fit. Second, larger format drivers begin to have pattern control problems lower in the high frequencies than 1" compression drivers. That is why Tom chose a 1" compression driver for the Unity.
Rgs, JLH
A good start to get more people to help is to trace out the current crossover and post it. We can then model it and give more input on how to use the DEQX. The key factor with the Unity crossover is the natural delay caused by the passive lowpass filter. You have to get it phase coherent, otherwise you will have problems.
Rgs, JLH
Thanks for the ideas, guys. The folk at DEQX gave me some ideas as well.
Josh, the crossovers are parallel and measuring them individually sounds like something I need to look into. Is there a particular website I can research how to go about doing that?
JLH, that's a good find and exactly the correct driver. They're 8-ohms a piece and wired in parallel, so that's a pretty tough load for an amplifier.
dave (planet10), when you say designer, are you referring to Tom Danley? I had shot him an email a little while back and didn't hear from him. That would be awesome if he is willing to help out with this.
-Jim
Josh, the crossovers are parallel and measuring them individually sounds like something I need to look into. Is there a particular website I can research how to go about doing that?
JLH, that's a good find and exactly the correct driver. They're 8-ohms a piece and wired in parallel, so that's a pretty tough load for an amplifier.
dave (planet10), when you say designer, are you referring to Tom Danley? I had shot him an email a little while back and didn't hear from him. That would be awesome if he is willing to help out with this.
-Jim
I wish Misco sold a sealed-back version of the KCN5FD - it's an excellent speaker. It's basically the same cone as the JC5RTF-B, but on a much more powerful motor.
For my new Unity, I'm probably using the JC5RTF-B, even though I like the former better. Sealing it is just too much of a hassle.
Have you seen that you can get the Celestion 6" sealed back midrange from QSC for less than 25 bucks?
Midrange Driver, 6.5", paper, ferrite
The air mass in a horn raises the impedance of a loudspeaker. Check out my thread here:
Small Tapped Horn For a Car - DIY Mobile Audio
I wired three woofers with an Re of 3.6 ohms, which should yield a load of 1.2ohms, and it wound up being about 2.5 ohms IIRC. Your mids are probably about six ohms in parallel, give or take 25%. It depends on the size of the horn and where the midranges are located.
Makes sense. Thank you, Patrick.
Yep, absolutely, I would like to have a good baseline in the DEQX (the stock crossover) to start with if possible.
-Jim
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Don't forget that there is a series resistor in line with the mids to drop their sensitivity in the passive crossover. This also raises the impedance seen by the amplifier, so its not a tough load after all.
Rgs, JLH
I wish Misco sold a sealed-back version of the KCN5FD - it's an excellent speaker. It's basically the same cone as the JC5RTF-B, but on a much more powerful motor.
For my new Unity, I'm probably using the JC5RTF-B, even though I like the former better. Sealing it is just too much of a hassle.
Have you seen that you can get the Celestion 6" sealed back midrange from QSC for less than 25 bucks?
Midrange Driver, 6.5", paper, ferrite
Yes, the KCN5FD is one hot 5" woofer. I agree messing with building a back chamber is a major PITA. I wish Misco made a sealed back 4" model. One of the problems you run into with the Unity horn is the air velocity in the entry ports. Once you start to get over about 17 meters per second you loose laminar flow. Larger Sd cones run you into this quicker. I've known about that 6.5" Celestion sealed mid, but avoid them because I really want a 4" instead. I though I could get the 4" Celestion, but the people at Celestion were not friendly at all.
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