Pardon my ignorance,
I built a set of loudspeakers with stuff from parts express. They are large, 2 x 12" a mid and a tweeter in each. SPLs were matched and the box was designed using my understanding of the loudspeaker design cookbook. I understand that putting two speakers together playing the same frequency range you should get a 3db increase in loudness, the next step up would be four then eight etc. i used two 12" woofers (8ohms each) ran them parallel for 4 ohms into the crossover... I bought one of the dayton crossovers, the more expensive ones that one can use either a 4 ohm woofer or an 8 ohm... I put it into the 4 ohm section. I have since come to the conclusion that my monster speakers in my living room are not putting out the big bass that i wanted. (or should be getting from four 12 inch speakers!)
I have since gotten into building my own crossovers and i realize that the only way that they can have a 4 ohm and an 8 ohm section run through the same caps and inductors and get the same frequency response would be to throw a 4 ohm resistor in line with the 4 ohm section to get an 8 ohm load. I believe this doubling of resistance is negating the 3 db gain i get from having two speakers, and thus leaving me with mids and highs that over whelm my 4 12" speakers.
I realize several things now. I need a better Amp! i am now learning how to build those and will be finishing my first headphone amp/pre amp soon. Next, I should have bought 2 4 ohm speakers and ran them in series to get 8 ohms and put that into the 8 ohm crossover.
Here is my question: If i were to wire the speakers in parallel for a 4 ohm load by pass the 3 way dayton crossover for the low end (sub 500hz) with my own crossover components dialed in for a 4 ohm load, would this work? This would still have the mids and highs run through the dayton xover. Impedance is an average (right? or nominal at 1khz or something) so by having a 4 ohm woofer section and a 8 ohm mid and high i should average over 6 ohms which is the minimum the amp i'm using can handle...?
I would like to get out of spending hundreds on new woofers just to have extra 12s sitting around the house asking for a new and more expensive project to start.
I was brushing my teeth and the idea came to me, so shoot me if its completely useless.
I built a set of loudspeakers with stuff from parts express. They are large, 2 x 12" a mid and a tweeter in each. SPLs were matched and the box was designed using my understanding of the loudspeaker design cookbook. I understand that putting two speakers together playing the same frequency range you should get a 3db increase in loudness, the next step up would be four then eight etc. i used two 12" woofers (8ohms each) ran them parallel for 4 ohms into the crossover... I bought one of the dayton crossovers, the more expensive ones that one can use either a 4 ohm woofer or an 8 ohm... I put it into the 4 ohm section. I have since come to the conclusion that my monster speakers in my living room are not putting out the big bass that i wanted. (or should be getting from four 12 inch speakers!)
I have since gotten into building my own crossovers and i realize that the only way that they can have a 4 ohm and an 8 ohm section run through the same caps and inductors and get the same frequency response would be to throw a 4 ohm resistor in line with the 4 ohm section to get an 8 ohm load. I believe this doubling of resistance is negating the 3 db gain i get from having two speakers, and thus leaving me with mids and highs that over whelm my 4 12" speakers.
I realize several things now. I need a better Amp! i am now learning how to build those and will be finishing my first headphone amp/pre amp soon. Next, I should have bought 2 4 ohm speakers and ran them in series to get 8 ohms and put that into the 8 ohm crossover.
Here is my question: If i were to wire the speakers in parallel for a 4 ohm load by pass the 3 way dayton crossover for the low end (sub 500hz) with my own crossover components dialed in for a 4 ohm load, would this work? This would still have the mids and highs run through the dayton xover. Impedance is an average (right? or nominal at 1khz or something) so by having a 4 ohm woofer section and a 8 ohm mid and high i should average over 6 ohms which is the minimum the amp i'm using can handle...?
I would like to get out of spending hundreds on new woofers just to have extra 12s sitting around the house asking for a new and more expensive project to start.
I was brushing my teeth and the idea came to me, so shoot me if its completely useless.
Hi ubernova,
I would not by a set of new speakers but for the money a another amplifier and connect that to your subs. Then you can increase the level.
But I ask my self where for you need such a High Speakerloudness?
I think when you want low frequency your design must go below 30Hz.
Here a tip for high qaulity low reproduction.
closed box 85 liter. with dayton rss390hf.
/dayton parts express
-3dB at 30Hz and -6dB at 23HZ. Q of 0,7 seen as the best value.
Max spl 116dB at 500Watts seems enough to me.
What woofers do you have now so I think about what you can do.
I would not by a set of new speakers but for the money a another amplifier and connect that to your subs. Then you can increase the level.
But I ask my self where for you need such a High Speakerloudness?
I think when you want low frequency your design must go below 30Hz.
Here a tip for high qaulity low reproduction.
closed box 85 liter. with dayton rss390hf.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
/dayton parts express
-3dB at 30Hz and -6dB at 23HZ. Q of 0,7 seen as the best value.
Max spl 116dB at 500Watts seems enough to me.
What woofers do you have now so I think about what you can do.
the speakers. I am using the dayton 12" classics. In a ~6.5 ft^3 box. dual ports tuned to the low 30 hz (supposedly).
I built a sub with the 12" version of the speaker you mentioned. It sounds great. I have it in the living room too.
On loudness: The room is really big with high ceilings as well. I want loud noise because sometimes we have big parties and it is nice to be able really bump it while people are dancing. Also I really enjoy listening to Pink Floyd's Time turned up so loud that it shakes the house, I feel like rock was meant to be listened to loud. Bi amping was a thought. I think putting in plate amps on both sides might work but their crossover only goes up to 200hz ish. I have my woofers up to 400hz. I could bring one woofer back to the xover at 8ohms and amp the bottom one coming in at 200 but then i would have a 200hz range missing about 3db of sound. I could buy another dedicated amp for this section but then I would need a special preamp that would send out two signals at line level...right? Is putting a 4 ohm woofer section if i use new crossover parts for it a possibility to get a 6ohm nominal load?
I built a sub with the 12" version of the speaker you mentioned. It sounds great. I have it in the living room too.
On loudness: The room is really big with high ceilings as well. I want loud noise because sometimes we have big parties and it is nice to be able really bump it while people are dancing. Also I really enjoy listening to Pink Floyd's Time turned up so loud that it shakes the house, I feel like rock was meant to be listened to loud. Bi amping was a thought. I think putting in plate amps on both sides might work but their crossover only goes up to 200hz ish. I have my woofers up to 400hz. I could bring one woofer back to the xover at 8ohms and amp the bottom one coming in at 200 but then i would have a 200hz range missing about 3db of sound. I could buy another dedicated amp for this section but then I would need a special preamp that would send out two signals at line level...right? Is putting a 4 ohm woofer section if i use new crossover parts for it a possibility to get a 6ohm nominal load?
Ubernova when you buy a big amplifier for the woofers (second-hand ebay to keep the costs low) .
That amp you feed out of the record output of your amp witch feeds the mid high-level speaker.
Or you have to dive into the schematic of your amp where you can tap of signal for the other amp. You can remove the resistors of the record output and and wire it direct to the signal with out loss.
Then you have to make a 1 oct low filter some where.
Then you need to know the output resistance of the source and the input resistance of the load.
With some knowledge of electronics it doesn't have to cost a lot. Other wise there are good quality active cross overs for PA these you can find second hand and new they aren't that expensive.
Such a high quality active filter is always handy to make an new arrangement with same amps bud different speakers. It make you flexible.
It is possible but I do not think you will get the SPL you want.
You need to double the power to get 3 dB more loudness so the difference in 250 and 500 watts is minimal and with 1000Watts it will sound a bit louder.
Because the sensitivity of your ears decrease for loud signals.
Regards Helmuth
And every meter you are away of your speaker the level decreases 6dB.
So placing the woofer nearer to your listening position will give large increase of spl level. So smart placement of the speaker will be the most simple and effective to do IMO.
Placing the woofer near the floor in the corner wil increase the loudness about 6-9dB.
So you can get the same result as with 4 time more amp power.
(And the box of 6,5 cu-feet is right to get -3dB at 34 Hz. So that is OK)
Your speaker can do good in a tapped Horn. this will work for 20-100Hz and a spl over 100dB at 1 watt. So with a rms power of 160 Watt the max spl will be 122dB. (127dB is pain level)
In your bassreflex box 112dB is the max level at 160Watt.
hornresponse
That is the best way to get enormous spl-levels and qaulity low response.
So placing the woofer nearer to your listening position will give large increase of spl level. So smart placement of the speaker will be the most simple and effective to do IMO.
Placing the woofer near the floor in the corner wil increase the loudness about 6-9dB.
So you can get the same result as with 4 time more amp power.
(And the box of 6,5 cu-feet is right to get -3dB at 34 Hz. So that is OK)
Your speaker can do good in a tapped Horn. this will work for 20-100Hz and a spl over 100dB at 1 watt. So with a rms power of 160 Watt the max spl will be 122dB. (127dB is pain level)
In your bassreflex box 112dB is the max level at 160Watt.
hornresponse
That is the best way to get enormous spl-levels and qaulity low response.
hmmmm...
I don't think those xovers have a resistor on them; I could be wrong. are they these : http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-152
check your wiring twice; especially polarity and impedance. you should be getting ok midbass, but those drivers aren't subs (i've got a pair). get some real power to them; if your receiver is only good for 6 ohm, that's not real power. you could biamp them, yes.
I don't think those xovers have a resistor on them; I could be wrong. are they these : http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-152
check your wiring twice; especially polarity and impedance. you should be getting ok midbass, but those drivers aren't subs (i've got a pair). get some real power to them; if your receiver is only good for 6 ohm, that's not real power. you could biamp them, yes.
For a 12dB/octave xover you need a cap and a coil for each pass band, 2 each for the midrange band-pass. So if you look carefully there's an extra cap. You have a doubled cap and a halved (the bar-core inductor is tapped) for the 4 ohm application. When I bought these you swapped a fuse which selected different wiring paths on the circuit board, looks like they're using jumpers now. I've got an Adcom 5802 laying around somewhere I'm not using...or you could biamp...lol!
Attachments
They were inspired by Jim Griffin's NFLAWP
The Line Arrays are a really rough DIY prototype built with supremely cheap drivers and scrap wood over the course of three days - and look it, LOL! They are less than $400 total, for the pair. With about $7K gear driving them , lol! They were built as a proof of concept excercise and sound really good considering the 69 and 89 cent midwoofer and tweeter costs! They are roughly ~93dB 1W/1m and I have plans to build a much nicer pair.
I did a really complex series/parallel wiring scheme that power tapers the output to approximate a curved line source. It is six groups that equates to ~ 14 ohm. They have a HUGE image and a WIDE soundstage like NOTHING I've ever heard (or built). Very satisfying with no comb filtering artifacts that I can detect.
http://diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/nflawp.pdf
The Line Arrays are a really rough DIY prototype built with supremely cheap drivers and scrap wood over the course of three days - and look it, LOL! They are less than $400 total, for the pair. With about $7K gear driving them , lol! They were built as a proof of concept excercise and sound really good considering the 69 and 89 cent midwoofer and tweeter costs! They are roughly ~93dB 1W/1m and I have plans to build a much nicer pair.
I did a really complex series/parallel wiring scheme that power tapers the output to approximate a curved line source. It is six groups that equates to ~ 14 ohm. They have a HUGE image and a WIDE soundstage like NOTHING I've ever heard (or built). Very satisfying with no comb filtering artifacts that I can detect.
http://diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/nflawp.pdf
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