I'm looking to build new line arrays that are 6db or more efficient than my current line arrays, so that I can drive them to the levels I demand with a 300b SET. (Current arrays are Accuton c82 and Fountek ribbons, which require more juice than my 300b amps put out: right about the point they are putting out decent volume I get into amp clipping hardness.)
Anyone with experience with the PHY H21 driver?
http://www.phy-hp.com/English/Products/H21lb15_E.html
My leading alternative is this much more efficient T6-96 Accuton:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8283
In either case I'd likely be using the Fountek Pro5i ribbon for the high end. ( http://www.fountek.com.au/products/NeoPro5i/index.htm )
Opinions and suggestions welcomed.
Anyone with experience with the PHY H21 driver?
http://www.phy-hp.com/English/Products/H21lb15_E.html
My leading alternative is this much more efficient T6-96 Accuton:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8283
In either case I'd likely be using the Fountek Pro5i ribbon for the high end. ( http://www.fountek.com.au/products/NeoPro5i/index.htm )
Opinions and suggestions welcomed.
Yeah, it's nuts but ...
I love the "big" and "uncompressed" sound of line arrays
I love the sound of 300b SETs
Put those together and you've got the problem of getting head banging volumes with 8w to 10w per side.
My current arrays are 93 to 95 db efficient with an active crossover, and just don't quite get there.
There really don't appear to be many driver choices that are 6db more efficient than the c82s I've already got. Thus I'm faced with "pay the money" or "pass on my real loves"
I love the "big" and "uncompressed" sound of line arrays
I love the sound of 300b SETs
Put those together and you've got the problem of getting head banging volumes with 8w to 10w per side.
My current arrays are 93 to 95 db efficient with an active crossover, and just don't quite get there.
There really don't appear to be many driver choices that are 6db more efficient than the c82s I've already got. Thus I'm faced with "pay the money" or "pass on my real loves"
http://www.faitalpro.com/products/schede/ps.php?id=101010100
Actually the near ideal speaker for your application (line array) would be the very *in*expensive (but difficult to source):
Altec CF204-8A
It has a lower fs.
It has a rising response in the correct loacation for an array.
It also has a high qts so that in smaller enclosure you will have a bit of a "bump" in response near fs - effectively providing some measure of baffle step compensation.
It has low mms and is quite detailed. (..goes well with the ribbons, and doesn't push a lot of current back to the amp.)
It has near "omni" radiation character all the way up to almost 2 kHz.
Its the right eff. for your application and the ribbons you have chosen.
(..if you do a search on it you'll see that the Japanese love this driver.)
You would probably have to source it direct:
http://www.altecpro.com/
Actually the near ideal speaker for your application (line array) would be the very *in*expensive (but difficult to source):
Altec CF204-8A
It has a lower fs.
It has a rising response in the correct loacation for an array.
It also has a high qts so that in smaller enclosure you will have a bit of a "bump" in response near fs - effectively providing some measure of baffle step compensation.
It has low mms and is quite detailed. (..goes well with the ribbons, and doesn't push a lot of current back to the amp.)
It has near "omni" radiation character all the way up to almost 2 kHz.
Its the right eff. for your application and the ribbons you have chosen.
(..if you do a search on it you'll see that the Japanese love this driver.)
You would probably have to source it direct:
http://www.altecpro.com/
augerpro said:
why not?
I tried the same with c173n-t6-96.
BTW its not 500$ its 615$drivers. what i can say that phy-hp absulutely another sound. its has roll sound. its pretty transparent for paper cones and even have low coloration as fulrange paper cones.but. t6-90 has break up but its way much pleasant sounding that some hard kevlar break ups. the midbass of t90 ir very tight . somewhat "non body" sound for people who likes paper cones but its very tight fast and neutral. with 4x t90 per side you will get efortless in sound.
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I also would not compare altec to t90 because one is purely midrange and another is midbass. its would be more fair to compare t96(which also can work surprisingly good without high pass, I tried 20Hz tones up to 80w and because of stiff suspencion driver does not bottom out ) with altec. if you like you old accuton sound(compreses and not dynamic and somewhat hars, you will love theese neo very much
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Here is a guideline for line arrays:
http://www.audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf
and here are some formulas for TSPs
http://www.picosound.de/D_soft.htm#tspchk
that allow to make sensitivity estimations.
I didn´t calculate, but I believe light 4-5" paper cones are the way to go. I haven´t listened to the Altecs, which I find very interesting, but to the Veravox 5X (in combination with a 300B amp). It is an excellent driver, and if the 5S is not much worse, it is even cheaper than the ceramic solution. Can be sourced at http://www.solen.ca
http://www.audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf
and here are some formulas for TSPs
http://www.picosound.de/D_soft.htm#tspchk
that allow to make sensitivity estimations.
I didn´t calculate, but I believe light 4-5" paper cones are the way to go. I haven´t listened to the Altecs, which I find very interesting, but to the Veravox 5X (in combination with a 300B amp). It is an excellent driver, and if the 5S is not much worse, it is even cheaper than the ceramic solution. Can be sourced at http://www.solen.ca
Re: Re: PHY HP21 vs. Accuton T6-96 for line array
Link to some discussion about the speakers:
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=43722.0
Link to some discussion about the heavily modded DEQX crossover:
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=47132.0
I don't have pics of the 300b amps. I'm currently using a pair of BAT 75SEs with some NOS tubes.
Bruce
wigginjs said:
Link to some discussion about the speakers:
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=43722.0
Link to some discussion about the heavily modded DEQX crossover:
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=47132.0
I don't have pics of the 300b amps. I'm currently using a pair of BAT 75SEs with some NOS tubes.
Bruce
Well then we are back to the old saw of do you want low end extension or high sensitivity? You can't have both.
I don't know much about line arrays but you're gonna have to get creative and find the lowest sensitivity driver that will accomplish you're target sensitivity for the whole line, and then see if such a driver exists with that sensitivity and can still cross to a sub at 80hz.
I don't know much about line arrays but you're gonna have to get creative and find the lowest sensitivity driver that will accomplish you're target sensitivity for the whole line, and then see if such a driver exists with that sensitivity and can still cross to a sub at 80hz.
now understand. but still why redirect man who already satisfasted with accuton sound but want higher sensitivity. never neo 96 version is much better in sound than previuos midbass.
thats not nessesary true about high sensitivity and low end extension. we designed in danemark by audiotechnology drivers(4ohms) 6inch which have 2 mm excursion , Fs of 42Hz, have 96.5-97db/2.83v/m an have beautifull low end down to 80hz(-2db). accuton 96midbass is less sensitive but have excursion more than double than AT so I dont see any problems. most paper drivers have low excursion and big magnets and have have rising FR from 3khz and up. when I try to measure theese 99db drivers at 200-800hz(where is fundamental low midrange ) I dont see manufacturers claimed eficienty. not even close.
thats not nessesary true about high sensitivity and low end extension. we designed in danemark by audiotechnology drivers(4ohms) 6inch which have 2 mm excursion , Fs of 42Hz, have 96.5-97db/2.83v/m an have beautifull low end down to 80hz(-2db). accuton 96midbass is less sensitive but have excursion more than double than AT so I dont see any problems. most paper drivers have low excursion and big magnets and have have rising FR from 3khz and up. when I try to measure theese 99db drivers at 200-800hz(where is fundamental low midrange ) I dont see manufacturers claimed eficienty. not even close.
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