If size isn't an issue, then build the FHXL with the A10.3. The A7.3 is a very nice driver, but can only be pushed so far running full range. The FHXL's will play louder with ease, if that's a consideration.
jeff
Absolutely! For just an extra sheet of plywood and the $10 for the plans, it's a no brainer. Thanks!
I wonder why no-one from the Fane-topics haven't taken a stab at this topic so far. Might as well be me then I guess.
First and foremost I really like your approach towards the world of DIY-hifi. Don't worry about the amp which you have already, it is more than great starting point. You will learn a valuable lesson when you decide to get an amplifier upgrade. They are called for a good reason entry level and high-end. And obviously everything in between, plus there is a huge difference what type of speakers the amp is running. Some drivers aren't that picky on the amp what is behind them and on the other hand there are speakers, which sound like absolutely **** without proper amp.
My suggestion is that, if and when you get to the OB-part of your build. Try a pair of Fane 15" full-rangers. You can literally build a pair of them from a single sheet of plywood and the drivers ain't that expensive either. I've had only couple different OB-setups, but to me it feels just silly to compare 4 inch driver to a 15 inch drivers. It is not just from the sheer amount of volume aspect, but to me these 15 inch full-rangers are the thing that I've been looking for. In this OB-setup, it just is the sound that I've been looking for all along. I got a pair of sealed 12-inch subwoofers lying around somewhere with a dedicated amplifier, but I do not feel like I need them with these OB-15inch-Fanes. And the beauty of the whole thing is that. You could if you want to build a big *** sealed boxes for these Fane 15-inch speakers. And better yet augment them with some bass-drivers. And if you are even remotely like most of us here in diyaudio-forums, old guys who can't hear all them high notes. I bet you would be more than happy with the high's of these Fane 15-inch full rangers.
Just take a look at the topic New 15" full range- FANE
First and foremost I really like your approach towards the world of DIY-hifi. Don't worry about the amp which you have already, it is more than great starting point. You will learn a valuable lesson when you decide to get an amplifier upgrade. They are called for a good reason entry level and high-end. And obviously everything in between, plus there is a huge difference what type of speakers the amp is running. Some drivers aren't that picky on the amp what is behind them and on the other hand there are speakers, which sound like absolutely **** without proper amp.
My suggestion is that, if and when you get to the OB-part of your build. Try a pair of Fane 15" full-rangers. You can literally build a pair of them from a single sheet of plywood and the drivers ain't that expensive either. I've had only couple different OB-setups, but to me it feels just silly to compare 4 inch driver to a 15 inch drivers. It is not just from the sheer amount of volume aspect, but to me these 15 inch full-rangers are the thing that I've been looking for. In this OB-setup, it just is the sound that I've been looking for all along. I got a pair of sealed 12-inch subwoofers lying around somewhere with a dedicated amplifier, but I do not feel like I need them with these OB-15inch-Fanes. And the beauty of the whole thing is that. You could if you want to build a big *** sealed boxes for these Fane 15-inch speakers. And better yet augment them with some bass-drivers. And if you are even remotely like most of us here in diyaudio-forums, old guys who can't hear all them high notes. I bet you would be more than happy with the high's of these Fane 15-inch full rangers.
Just take a look at the topic New 15" full range- FANE
I'm about to put an order for the FHXL components, but I got a question about the acoustic dampers. For now I'm using the FH3 plans as base until i get the FHXL ones paid.
This one asks for polyfil and 1/2" wool/cotton felt.
Madison's got FiberFill polyester fill (I assume this is totally correct). However, they have no 1/2 felt. They've got 1/8" felt or 5/8" foam.
What would be better? Use 4 sheets of felt to account for 1/2", or one sheet of 5/8 foam?
I understand that the damping on the FHXL might be different, but the same logic probably applies. Would it be better to go find the right stuff at a hobby store or any other online resource? I quickly looked through online and got a little scared with price for the felt! lol
This one asks for polyfil and 1/2" wool/cotton felt.
Madison's got FiberFill polyester fill (I assume this is totally correct). However, they have no 1/2 felt. They've got 1/8" felt or 5/8" foam.
What would be better? Use 4 sheets of felt to account for 1/2", or one sheet of 5/8 foam?
I understand that the damping on the FHXL might be different, but the same logic probably applies. Would it be better to go find the right stuff at a hobby store or any other online resource? I quickly looked through online and got a little scared with price for the felt! lol
The damping in the FHXL is just more. Acoustastuff from Madisound is good, 12mm natural felt is harder to find since the 1st CSS went out of business.
4 layers of 1/8” felt will do in a pinch… search a bit deeper. Ulltratouch furnace stuff should be findable at contruction supply stores.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/UltraTouch-48-in-x-6-ft-Radiant-Barrier-30000-11406/100656748
This doesn’t say how thick it is but might also be suitable.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/UltraTo...ot-Water-Heater-Blanket-60301-48752/202710039
dave
4 layers of 1/8” felt will do in a pinch… search a bit deeper. Ulltratouch furnace stuff should be findable at contruction supply stores.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/UltraTouch-48-in-x-6-ft-Radiant-Barrier-30000-11406/100656748
This doesn’t say how thick it is but might also be suitable.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/UltraTo...ot-Water-Heater-Blanket-60301-48752/202710039
dave
Hey Cakeman!
Yes, I was probably misunderstood by a few people. The speakers are where I want to start, one thing will most likely lead to another and naturally I'll upgrade amplifiers too. I just gotta start somewhere and I'm definitely more comfortable cutting wood than designing electronics (that's not a big accomplishment anyway). I've been lurking around on the DIY section of amplifiers and it totally confuses me. I hope I'm wrong, but differently than speakers, there is not a whole of good information for beginners and kits that are easy and straightforward. Apparently the ACA and MK2 on the DIYaudiostore are the best candidates, but are unavailable.. I'll keep an eye out.
That's an interesting driver you pointed, thank you! I'm relatively young (35) compared to most guys here and as fair as I can tell I am kinda picky on the highs. With that said, I see no problem in bi-amping and playing with Crossovers in the future if I need a helper tweeter here!
That's a good thing though! I rather see it selling in one day even if I need to wait for the next batch!
By the way, I've made a donation to the forum. How do I proceed to get the plans?
Indeed, hopefully Jason & crew will be able to shorten the fulfillment / delivery time frames on the next batch(es) of these little buggers. The pair I build were prior to the latest updates to front panel switch / upgraded power connector, and were a very easy build - but aside from a quick smoke test and bias setting, I've not actually heard them yet in a serious system.
With products this affordable and easy to build, a guy could get seriously enthused about building electronics again.
With products this affordable and easy to build, a guy could get seriously enthused about building electronics again.
Reminds me... My payment hung at Paypal. I had better make another, to be sure 
A few years back the Pioneer A400 and Arcam 7 were both picking up 5 stars in mags, at the same price. Even now, they are still worth about the same as each other, and people want them. They're very different though. The A400 can scream in your face, and make your cones jump out in one hit. Thrash metal loves that amp. It just keeps driving everything forward, with it's bright top end and tort (if a little quiet) bass response. The Arcam couldn't ever respond fast enough to give the impression a cone might fly out. It will never scream at you. It has a lot more warmth and smoothness to the sound. It's the dub/reggae amp in bass terms, or the Smooth Jazz Club vocally.
If your looking for hard hitting bass, the Arcam will never find it. It can't do it. If your looking for some Smooth laid back blues, the Pioneer isn't going to do it. Both are financial equals, but totally different. I moved from the Pioneer too the Arcam, because a change in speakers forced me to. I had built some hard hitting dance music speakers, with enough bass about them to overcome the pioneers lack of volume down there. They were absolutely banging. Then the commercial speakers arrived. Couple of 6.5" cones in a transmission line. Well... I thought they were broke. I could just hear tweeters. I actually pulled the drivers out and returned them for testing. They passed, but it was unbearable to listen to. I had to change my amp. So I took the speakers to the shop to demo amps, and only the Arcam could even make any bass with them. Well... My idea of bass. The shop advised me some used niam gear would suit me, but with non in, I took the Arcam. Nad also tamed the speakers, but I find Nad rather woolen. The pioneer was by comparison definitely titanium, and the Arcam the middle ground.
Your musical tastes probably suit your amp. Though it's still going to be a good idea to visit a shop, listen to speakers as you wish, and then some amps. You will likely find your speaker choice changes, as you see how they perform with different electronics.
Most brands have a 'house sound' so if you know your amp, you can likely hear that brand on demo and make strong associations with your own amp. In the UK we seem to have cambridge audio, with it's exact sound. Arcam is warm. Nad makes madonna sound like barry white.
Ok.. Maybe Tom Jones. Barry White was unfair
I think there is as much between amps at a price point, as speakers. At your price point, this can make the difference between the occasional gem, and just mediocre. It's all about use though. Many of us keep an A400 as a spare. Or look back fondly. I never had a moment where it painted a picture though. But the lesser liked Arcam does. I guess it's why the shops are full of options. They don't all sound the same.
Sorry for the long post. I lost my first one. Think yourself lucky
A few years back the Pioneer A400 and Arcam 7 were both picking up 5 stars in mags, at the same price. Even now, they are still worth about the same as each other, and people want them. They're very different though. The A400 can scream in your face, and make your cones jump out in one hit. Thrash metal loves that amp. It just keeps driving everything forward, with it's bright top end and tort (if a little quiet) bass response. The Arcam couldn't ever respond fast enough to give the impression a cone might fly out. It will never scream at you. It has a lot more warmth and smoothness to the sound. It's the dub/reggae amp in bass terms, or the Smooth Jazz Club vocally.
If your looking for hard hitting bass, the Arcam will never find it. It can't do it. If your looking for some Smooth laid back blues, the Pioneer isn't going to do it. Both are financial equals, but totally different. I moved from the Pioneer too the Arcam, because a change in speakers forced me to. I had built some hard hitting dance music speakers, with enough bass about them to overcome the pioneers lack of volume down there. They were absolutely banging. Then the commercial speakers arrived. Couple of 6.5" cones in a transmission line. Well... I thought they were broke. I could just hear tweeters. I actually pulled the drivers out and returned them for testing. They passed, but it was unbearable to listen to. I had to change my amp. So I took the speakers to the shop to demo amps, and only the Arcam could even make any bass with them. Well... My idea of bass. The shop advised me some used niam gear would suit me, but with non in, I took the Arcam. Nad also tamed the speakers, but I find Nad rather woolen. The pioneer was by comparison definitely titanium, and the Arcam the middle ground.
Your musical tastes probably suit your amp. Though it's still going to be a good idea to visit a shop, listen to speakers as you wish, and then some amps. You will likely find your speaker choice changes, as you see how they perform with different electronics.
Most brands have a 'house sound' so if you know your amp, you can likely hear that brand on demo and make strong associations with your own amp. In the UK we seem to have cambridge audio, with it's exact sound. Arcam is warm. Nad makes madonna sound like barry white.
Ok.. Maybe Tom Jones. Barry White was unfair
I think there is as much between amps at a price point, as speakers. At your price point, this can make the difference between the occasional gem, and just mediocre. It's all about use though. Many of us keep an A400 as a spare. Or look back fondly. I never had a moment where it painted a picture though. But the lesser liked Arcam does. I guess it's why the shops are full of options. They don't all sound the same.
Sorry for the long post. I lost my first one. Think yourself lucky
The thread pointed to have many happy builders using the GRS-15PF-8 at $30 each, plus TG9 at $17.
That's a total of $94 of drivers.
Add in the cost of the XO parts, at about $150 and you are close to your budget.
Or if you really want to shine, get the miniDSP HD at $200 (I know, we are going over budget but just giving some options) and you can play with XO curves and points to your heart's content!
... for something that looks like this (I know, it's not everybody's cup of mojo!)
I like that
There are some plan for building that stag???
This has been another can of worms. I started reading about the diy kits available and had my head turning. I know very little about electronics and different topologies. I will probably wait for the ACA no to spend too much money. I got really attracted by the honey badger though. Maybe just because of its name, maybe because it just looks so imposing.
If your looking for hard hitting bass, the Arcam will never find it. It can't do it. If your looking for some Smooth laid back blues, the Pioneer isn't going to do it. Both are financial equals, but totally different. I moved from the Pioneer too the Arcam, because a change in speakers forced me to. The shop advised me some used niam gear would suit me, but with non in, I took the Arcam. Nad also tamed the speakers, but I find Nad rather woolen. The pioneer was by comparison definitely titanium, and the Arcam the middle ground.
Your musical tastes probably suit your amp. Though it's still going to be a good idea to visit a shop, listen to speakers as you wish, and then some amps. You will likely find your speaker choice changes, as you see how they perform with different electronics.
Most brands have a 'house sound' so if you know your amp, you can likely hear that brand on demo and make strong associations with your own amp. In the UK we seem to have cambridge audio, with it's exact sound. Arcam is warm. Nad makes madonna sound like barry white.
Sorry for the long post. I lost my first one. Think yourself lucky
Thanks for the long text! I find very pleasing to read and learn from others' experiences. I will, in time, go to a store and try an find a few amps to demo. However, I am very attracted to DIY and will probably just build whatever people suggest, see if I like them, build more, etc... Hopefully I get acquainted with other people around me who built amps I can hear. I think once I finish my FHXL (components already on the way) I can start worrying about that.
I have a few amplifiers available at home. Although they're all mediocre I think it will be fun to try different ones on the same setup to at least train my ears to the nuances of each. I only have Class D and a couple A/Bs. I want to listen to a Class A to see if I can notice the magic people talk about. Well, tubes are another can of worms. I find them fascinating but I don't think I'd ever go there.
As an update, the wife likes the looks of the FHXLs so much that she wants them in the bedroom. I was planning in making a pair of small bookshelf speakers for there, but that's gonna wait now.
It's not much smaller than the basement. It's about 12'x20'. The advantage here is that there is a little alcove in one corner (used to be a closet). That is helpful to eliminate a bit of the squareness of the room. The room is very acoustically reflective though (three mirrors, hardwood floors, no soft furnishings, only one dresser and the bed). I am telling my wife that we will need some acoustic treatment. We will cross that bridge when we get there though.
It used to be two bedrooms that were converted into one. It was actually ridiculously large when we moved in. I got the bathroom extended into the bedroom by 8 feet!
This bedroom used to be 13' (or 12' or 14' I don't remember well) x 28'. It was supposed to have furniture in it (like chairs and couches). The wife doesn't like furniture, though. When we first moved in it felt like a football field.
This bedroom used to be 13' (or 12' or 14' I don't remember well) x 28'. It was supposed to have furniture in it (like chairs and couches). The wife doesn't like furniture, though. When we first moved in it felt like a football field.
6 to 8 6.5in to 8in (inexpensive) woofers in a slot loaded open baffle with your choice of full range on top (any of the ones you mentioned above plus SS 10F, Visaton B80, 3FE25 etc. and XO about 150Hz FAST with miniDSP sounds very very good. Reference quality for frequency response and transients. The dipole bass is very deep and articulate when sitting near it but doesn’t t compress the room so doesn’t bother neighbors or other family members.
More here:
Cheap and FAST OB, Literally
One of the best examples by Z transform:
Novel Open Baffle Construction Techniques
And very well done example by CLS:
Nelson Pass: The Slot Loaded Open Baffle Project
And by Pass:
The Slot Loaded Open Baffle Project Article By Nelson Pass
More here:
Cheap and FAST OB, Literally
One of the best examples by Z transform:
Novel Open Baffle Construction Techniques
And very well done example by CLS:
Nelson Pass: The Slot Loaded Open Baffle Project
And by Pass:
The Slot Loaded Open Baffle Project Article By Nelson Pass
I received the speakers today! I was excited to start running them in then a little bummed once I opened he box....I wrote Madison’s already, but wanted to hear your thoughts.
One of the speakers has a little nick on the cone. I thought I could live with that and wasn’t going to complain but when I opened the second speaker I learned that it is different than the first one. Both are the same model and color, but the cone of the speaker with the little ding is not clear coated, while the other speaker is clear coated. You can clearly see a bit of orange peel “finish” on the second unit whereas the first one only has the brushed metal finish to it.
What are your thoughts? I assume the dinged cone wasn’t even finished, but again I don’t think the one with orange peel clear coat is right either. Just because it doesn’t look right. After all this is no bmw (famous for their not very good paint job)
One of the speakers has a little nick on the cone. I thought I could live with that and wasn’t going to complain but when I opened the second speaker I learned that it is different than the first one. Both are the same model and color, but the cone of the speaker with the little ding is not clear coated, while the other speaker is clear coated. You can clearly see a bit of orange peel “finish” on the second unit whereas the first one only has the brushed metal finish to it.
What are your thoughts? I assume the dinged cone wasn’t even finished, but again I don’t think the one with orange peel clear coat is right either. Just because it doesn’t look right. After all this is no bmw (famous for their not very good paint job)
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